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crosby mafia ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 18 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 62 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 30 Jan 11 at 11:33pm |
What is the correct way to round the mark when the race is shortened ? Here is the story... The course was to leave the mark to port, and on to the next mark. But due to a massive reduction in wind and the slower boats may not finish, the course was shortened. The club line was the opposite end of the lake, to the next mark in question, which meant the mark needed to be left to starboard or loop around. All boats left the mark to starboard and finished but over a cup of tea a "rules Guru" started to try and reason which was was correct. So can anyone give the correct way to do it, is it either.....
a) leave the mark to port and loop around it and to the finish line OR b) leave to starboard and to the finish line. I await with baited breath....
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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The RRS, (see rule 32.2 below) without other details in the Sailing Instructions, only work where the shorten course signal is given nearby to a rounding mark or a gate, or the finishing line is a line boats are required to cross at the end of each lap.
Difficult to answer without seeing the Sailing Instructions relevant to shortening course, so please post them if you can.
Meanwhile, assuming that the SI say something like "if flag S is displayed with two sounds, boats shall round the next mark and sail to the finishing line" (and assuming that all boats were on the same leg), then there is nothing there to change the required side of the mark, so it needs to be rounded to port.
32.2 If the race committee signals a shortened course (displays flag S with two sounds), the finishing line shall be,(a) at a rounding mark, between the mark and a staff displaying flag S;(b) at a line boats are required to cross at the end of each lap, that line; (c) at a gate, between the gate marks.Edited by Brass - 31 Jan 11 at 12:16am |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Hmm. not quite clear about this. Is this sketch roughly right as regards the situation?
Green being the course that was set, red being the course that was actually sailed? It does depends completely on the SIs etc, but unless there is something very specific going on I think it depends on whether the mark was defined as a rounding mark or a passing mark. I believe the default is a passing mark... ![]() In that case, if the port hand mark is a rounding mark then the string rule applies, and cyan is correct. If on the other hand its a passing mark then competitors would be within their rights to sail the purple course and peel off to the finish as soon as the shorten flag appears, because they will still have left the mark to port. For red to be correct there would have to be something quite complicated in the SIs I think. But clearly red was the sane thing to do in the circumstances! Edited by JimC - 31 Jan 11 at 6:43am |
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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JimC, Nice visualisation and nice diagram.
Yes, marks are only rounding marks if they are identified as such in the SI (rule J2.1(5) and Appendix L note to 9.2, and RYA Appeal 1985/4).
RYA 1985/4 When a race committee intends a mark to be looped, the mark must be identified as a rounding mark. When the sailing instructions do not do so, or when they are ambiguous, a boat may elect not to round a mark when she can still leave it on the required side and in the correct order. |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Its an interesting point the passing mark thing. After a particularly awkward protest/unwise course setting incident last year we're considering putting in an SI that all marks are rounding marks unless defined otherwise on the course diagram.
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Did your incident illustrate a 'trap for young players' that would be useful to share with us all?
Wouldn't switching the default from non-rounding to rounding in the SI just cause the mirror image of the problem?
In my limited experience, problems of this kind are usually caused by:
Note that in Canada, setting a 'looping' mark is an improper action. See CYA Case 74. I think that exaggerates the danger, and would be impractical here in Sydney, where we have permanently laid racing marks, used simultaneously by numerous clubs, which the local maritime authority requires all be rounded to starboard.
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Wind was shifting, and there had been several course changes on the beach while rigging. RO tried to set a "one of these will be a beat" course. The windward mark was originally stbd: once many people had launched it was changed again to port as per sketch, with black being the intended course. We don't use passing marks, so have no way of distinguishing passing marks from rounding marks on the CB.
Protest was about some sailors having missed the change from stbd to port rounding and rounding incorrectly, but once we analysed the situation we realised that blue was a legal course... ![]() Edited by JimC - 01 Feb 11 at 12:21am |
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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I remember you told us before that at your club you do courses with a marks and a string on pegboard in the clubhouse.
Assuming that your SI say something like 'courses shall be as shown on the course board in the clubhouse', if the pegboard had an actual string touching the marks, that, in my opinion makes them rounding marks. No less so for a chalk line or whiteboard marker illustrating change of course at each mark. On that basis, Blue isn't the legal course.
Downside of your method, of course, is that it makes last-minute changes of course in response to wind shifts difficult.
If you always arrange things so that all marks are rounding marks, then the 'boats shall round marks in the order shown' or 'All marks shown in GREEN on the Course Board are to be rounded to Starboard and all marks shown in RED on the Course Board are to be rounded to PORT' should do the trick, although, as indicated, I don't think it is really necessary. Edited by Brass - 01 Feb 11 at 5:54am |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Our opinion too! But if you have to change the course on the CB after sailors have launched then, but only then, its a problem if you manage to set a course with a problem like that one. Its a once every five years incident I guess, and only likely to happen if the RC is rushed trying to get the race off on time and deal with changing conditions, but still worth avoiding if you can do it without causing more problems than you solve. Edited by JimC - 01 Feb 11 at 7:45am |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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I think to settle this we need extracts from the SIs relating to how courses are announced and how course are shortened.
How and where was the shortened course signalled. Any changes to standard procedure give rise to difficulties - usually because the drafting of such SIs produce unintended effects. Gordon |
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Gordon
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