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ohFFsake ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 04 Sep 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 219 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 07 Aug 10 at 11:25pm |
A strange situation cropped up in a recent race at our local club, regarding the interpretation of rounding a mark.
Here's a variation of the course which illustrates the point of contention. The OD sets the following course (see diagram) (START) 1-S 2-S 3-S 4-S 5-P (FINISH) ![]() What does a boat need to do at marks 2 and 4 in order to correctly comply with the stated course? |
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Sailing4Life ![]() Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: 26 Jun 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 38 |
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To me with the diagram you have drawn and the instructions
you have given I would leave mark 5 to port and that would be it. You leave mark 1,2,3,4 to starboard which means as long as they are on your right your good. |
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Rs600 + many others
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ohFFsake ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 04 Sep 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 219 |
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That's what I thought.
However to satisfy rule 28.1(b) it would appear that the only correct interpretation would be to do a 360 degree clockwise turn around marks 2 and 4. Otherwise the notional piece of string fails to touch the mark |
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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Depends if the course STATES round the mark to S; or MARK to S; If rounding; you might have a point as because of the shape of the course and the fact you are expected to ROUND the mark; then string must pull taught and TOUCH. If the course states pass the mark to stbd then the string does not need to TOUCH. From: http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/RRS20092012with2010ch anges-[8222].pdf
28 SAILING THE COURSE 28.1 A boat shall start, leave each mark on the required side in the correctorder, and finish, so that a string representing her track after startingand until finishing would when drawn taut(a) pass each mark on the required side,(b) touch each rounding mark, and(c) pass between the marks of a gate from the direction of the previousmark .She may correct any errors to comply with this rule. After finishingshe need not cross the finishing line completely. |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Appendix L of the rules*, the guide to SIs is the place that talks about differentiating rounding marks from others. Basically the SIs should distinguish between rounding marks and non-rounding marks unless its obvious. To my mind though this course is unnecessary complication. Bearing in mind the area you've drawn then none of the marks except maybe 5 add anything much to the game at all unless there's strong current...
*not a place you'd ordinarily spend much time looking at! Edited by JimC |
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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AFAIK all marks are for rounding unless stated otherwise. Unless there is either a course diagram showing that the intermediate marks are passing marks or a statement in the SIs to that effect, the marks need to be looped, which presumably wasn't the ROs intention. We commonly set passing marks at my club and the course list states any marks which are passing.
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Stefan, It is the other way round; All marks are passing marks unless it is specified that they are rounding marks. Boats are required to pass all marks on the required side, the "string" is only required to touch marks specified as rounding marks (see RYA1985/4). The SIs must clearly identify rounding marks.
It is possible that you have local SIs that specify that all marks are rounding marks but the RRS certainly do not. Gordon |
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Gordon
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ohFFsake ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 04 Sep 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 219 |
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Thanks for everyone's comments and thoughts about this.
Gordon, your definition actually seems to follow the logic I'd have expected in the first place, but can you give me a reference to where in the RRS it corroborates your statement that all marks are assumed to be passing marks unless defined as rounding marks? The exact situation in our case is that 3 marks were defined as in 3,4,5 above. I chose to go straight from 3 to 5, on the basis that I thus passed the correct side of 4. I won the race but a week later our sailing secretary came across rule 28.1b and retrospectively DSQ'd us! Thus it would please me greatly to find we were in the right all along! |
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ohFFsake ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 04 Sep 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 219 |
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Ah, just found the case you quoted:
RYA 1985/4 When a race committee intends a mark to be looped, the mark must be identified as a rounding mark. When the sailing instructions do not do so, or when they are ambiguous, a boat may elect not to round a mark when she can still leave it on the required side and in the correct order. Seems pretty definitive... ![]() |
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Just a quibble, there is a difference between 'specified' and 'identified'. Marks in a conventional triangle or WL sausage course will be sufficiently identified as rounding marks without spelling it out in words. The most usual way SI inadvertently make marks into rounding marks is with a statement like 'All marks shall be rounded on the side shown ...', or 'boats must round each mark ...'. |
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