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Replica Sails

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hollandsd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hollandsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Replica Sails
    Posted: 01 Dec 08 at 7:04pm
What are companies that will supply replica sails for the RS classes?
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Webmuppet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Webmuppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 08 at 7:18pm
Rooster do a replica for the RS300 'B Rig' but I'm not sure if there are replicas for any of the others,

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radixon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote radixon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 08 at 7:19pm
I am sure any good sail maker will do them for you.

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bert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 08 at 11:22pm

google say`s

At INSAILS we aim to supply the most competitively priced, quality sails in Europe. We stock over 500 One Design sails.

Dynamic Sails: Dinghy

Dinghy Sails. We build sails for all dinghy classes! ... We also build ‘replica' or 'training' sails for all one design classes, please contact us for more


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Chew my RS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 08 at 8:54am
Ignoring the ethics of buying fake SMOD sails, is it cost effective to get a replica sail for a RS?  You won't be allowed to do any RS events with it, the sail is worthless second hand, the mylar sails (especially the fully battened ones) last years and are not that expensive anyway.  I, for one, would be highly reluctant to buy a used RS that came with a replica sail, so I guess it must affect the boat price too.
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Nick Peters View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 08 at 10:28am

The RS300 main is a  complex sail to make and the cloths are unfortunately not used by Hydes for anything else any more. Thus it ends up more expensive than it might be.

If the class would entertain a change to the sail - using different cloths - the price could be 25% less easily. Preserving the one-design nature of the classes is important, it is fundamental to every SMOD - safeguards s/h values, ensures the best racing etc. Several other (non RS) classes have had significant sail construction and appearance changes - any feedback from them? I am sure there comes a time when all one-designs have to subtly develop.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 08 at 10:36am
Originally posted by Nick Peters

The RS300 main is a  complex sail to make and the cloths are unfortunately not used by Hydes for anything else any more. Thus it ends up more expensive than it might be.

If the class would entertain a change to the sail - using different cloths - the price could be 25% less easily. Preserving the one-design nature of the classes is important, it is fundamental to every SMOD - safeguards s/h values, ensures the best racing etc. Several other (non RS) classes have had significant sail construction and appearance changes - any feedback from them? I am sure there comes a time when all one-designs have to subtly develop.

Nick.



Nice to see the Director of a SMOD manufacturer having a forward thinking vision here. As an Ex Blaze sailor I was quite please when Topper 'dropped' the class as it allowed many small modifications to be made. Although arguable the biggest change was made when Topper were still the builder. That was the change of sail from a fully bettened rig to a semi soft rig, transforming the boat in to what it is today. Since the class took over building there have been a number of small modifications, most to keep costs down and make the boat easier to build. Old boats are still competitive as borne out by the fact that very early boats (commonly known as Mk 1s) are still appearing at the top of the tables at nationals and open meetings.

Good luck to the 300 class, as long as RS support you then get the sail changed just make sure it performs like the original (in the Blaze it did aside from in stronger winds where the semi soft is much easier to control).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 08 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Nick Peters

The RS300 main is a  complex sail to make and the cloths are unfortunately not used by Hydes for anything else any more. Thus it ends up more expensive than it might be.

If the class would entertain a change to the sail - using different cloths - the price could be 25% less easily. Preserving the one-design nature of the classes is important, it is fundamental to every SMOD - safeguards s/h values, ensures the best racing etc. Several other (non RS) classes have had significant sail construction and appearance changes - any feedback from them? I am sure there comes a time when all one-designs have to subtly develop.

Nick.

 

Nick,

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to this topic. Your views on this are very interesting.

I was strongly in favour of the Rooster sail being considered as an alternative to the Hyde, I have used a Rooster and believe there to be NO discernable speed difference between the two. I believe there was a discussion at the AGM about this issue (I did not attend the nationals or any open meeting events this year because I strongly disagreed with the way the RS Class Association chairman dealt with this matter) and I think, from what I have been told (I will check out the validity of this with others who were there) that the class was told that as the license holder for the boat LDC would not entertain the sails being made by some other manufacturer.

This is fair enough, as obviously you guys paid for the design and development etc etc, however, the class was told that the pricing strategy of the sails would be looked at. That was good news as I fail to understand how Hyde who appear to outsource everything to the Far East could be undercut by Rooster (who i believe make their sails on the South Coast), unless there is a massive mark up being levied by LDC. I have heard this argument about the cloth before and am not sure how much of a pinch of salt to take it with...... The Rooster sail cloth looks very similar indeed to the Hyde, and it is fully stitched whereas the hyde is only glued on most of the panel joints.

I appreciate that the class is one design and that I bought in to this ethos when I chose the boat to sail, however I find it difficult to justify the extra money for a Hyde when a superior product (albeit without class approval) sells for significantly less.

Is the class aware of your/LDC's standpoint on this? I for one would definitely support a change in cloth if it significantly reduces the cost of the sail but does not affect performance or longevity. Oh and could it be fully stitched please?

Chris

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Edited by chrisg
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Inland sea View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Inland sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 08 at 12:14pm

Good open discussion this and close to my heart as a very keen 300 sailor.

Thanks Nick for listening and keeping an open mind to the current feeling within the class.

I have both a New Rooster sail and new Hyde sail, in performance i would say they are identical so no real gain or loss to be made their then other than the price.

It is nice that the rooster is stitched, and in time, I'll find out if it will last longer than my 2 year old Hyde, which is still competitive.

At the AGM we did ask for the sail cloth situation to be investigated purely down to the price which I believe is being looked at .. more to come through official channels I am sure. This was really the only avenue open for progressive discussion as the Rooster sail will not be allowed by the class. This I believe is down to the rights of the class being owned by LDC there fore not open to change ... please correct me if I am wrong.

It however does not stop anyone from using the Rooster sail at club level and is a damn good practice sail. This is one boat that really benefits from time on the water practice, but that's all ready being covered in another thread.

Whatever happens I hope that we end up with a cheaper sail that remains class legal and lasts at least as well as the current IMHO expensive Hyde

Richard 300 (426)



Edited by Inland sea
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dics View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dics Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 08 at 12:38pm

Originally posted by Inland sea

At the AGM we did ask for the sail cloth situation to be investigated purely down to the price which I believe is being looked at .. more to come through official channels I am sure.

How long does it take to look at the price of two different materials? If it was a priority I would had thought the two months since the Nationals would have been long enough to sort this out and if viable to get the wheels in motion for voting a change of sail cloth. Has anyone heard anything? It will be interesing to see if anything comes of the AGM discussion of if it is just forgotten about.

Chrisg you are totally right. It was the attitude of the RS Class Association chairman that was the emphasis of me wanting to sell the 300. However, after seeing there was nothing else out there that compared I took the attitude why should I get rid of the 300 simply becuase of him.

It is good to see that Nick Peters is taking a positive interest in the feed back of the 300 sailors issues.

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