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Pumping to accelerate off the start
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JohnW View Drop Down
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Posts: 552 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pumping to accelerate off the start
    Posted: 15 Oct 08 at 1:43pm
Moved from the Video of the week thread:

Originally posted by tgruitt

Originally posted by thedinghysailor

Awesome coaching video:
Sailgroove Technique Tuesday


Nice pump, I wouldn't do that on a light wind day!!


EDIT: For those that can view the video, it shows a boat being accelerated off the start with the crew rolling the boat to leeward and then rocking back upright to accelerate it with a big pump.

I struggle to see how that technique is valid in any wind conditions.  To my mind it is not consistent with rule 42.1:

Except when permitted in rule 42.3 or 45, a boat shall compete by
using only the wind and water to increase, maintain or decrease her
speed. Her crew may adjust the trim of sails and hull, and perform
other acts of seamanship, but shall not otherwise move their bodies
to propel the boat.

The Higher & Faster "Startline" DVD shows a similar start technique with Lasers, can someone enlighten me as to how this is legal as it seems to be comon practice.

Thanks.




Edited by JohnW
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Roy Race View Drop Down
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Posts: 275 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 08 at 1:57pm

Hi John,

I believe that strictly speaking, there should be a course change at the same time as the "pump". This would be a course change from just below close-hauled to close-hauled. Then, you're 'cough', using the heel of the boat to assist with the course change 'cough' and then simply flattening it out afterwards.

If there's no course change, then yes, it's just a great big pump. However, I think the practice is so commonplace that it's become accepted however it's done.

If you watch the top Olympic sailors, they would always start the procedure heeled to leeward, sails flapping, well below close hauled.
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KennyR View Drop Down
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Posts: 52 		Post Options Post Options   Quote KennyR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 08 at 2:23pm
Tactically - heeling to leeward before the start
discourages people from coming in close below you [even
though windward boat has to keep clear] and creates a
bit of room you can then accelerate the boat into.
Nothing prevents you using heel for these purposes and
nothing stops you flattening out afterwards. The 'shoot'
forward however is illegal, but I guess the PRO, jury
and your competitors are all just a bit too bust to
notice as the gun goes
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Posts: 39 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Spyderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 08 at 12:02am
This maneuver is an illegal pump and I would yellow flag this if appendix P was in effect. Specially because the boat was heeled to leeward before righting. With or without a course change.
Are you interested in the Racing Rules of Sailing? Go to: http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com
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Posts: 589 		Post Options Post Options   Quote laser4000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 08 at 12:11am
It's illegal under standard RRS.

BUT US collegiate racing have 'odd' rule 42 variations and this is a vide from Brown University. IIRC ooching is unlimited, so you have crews with double buoyancy aids on, ramming the mast with their shoulder like you're Martin Johnson trying to take down Jonah Lomu..

So I guess it might be something that's legal under US collegiate rules.

BUT what you will find is at most club racing / open meeting events you'll get away with it as some of your competitors will be doing the same, and others won't know what you are doing.  Without on the water judging or a load of witnesses then it would be difficult to win in the room..






Edited by laser4000
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ChrisJ View Drop Down
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Posts: 337 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 08 at 9:24pm

Are you not allowed "one pump per gust"?

It looks to me as though they are only doing 1/2 a roll: from well to leeward to upright. After that the boat is steady, upright and sailing.
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JohnW View Drop Down
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Posts: 552 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 08 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by ChrisJ

Are you not allowed "one pump per gust"?


Not when sailing to windward and only to promote planing.  Clearly not the case here.  Rolling is only alowed to facilitate steering, again it does not seem to be the case in the video.

42.3 Exceptions
(a) A boat may be rolled to facilitate steering.
(b) A boat’s crew may move their bodies to exaggerate the rolling
that facilitates steering the boat through a tack or a gybe, provided
that, just after the tack or gybe is completed, the boat’s
speed is not greater than it would have been in the absence of
the tack or gybe.
(c) Except on a beat to windward, when surfing (rapidly accelerating
down the leeward side of a wave) or planing is possible, the
boat’s crew may pull the sheet and the guy controlling any sail
in order to initiate surfing or planing, but only once for each
wave or gust of wind.



Edited by JohnW
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 08 at 9:58pm
Even I would assume that was highly illegal, but i shall now go and learn to
perfect it. I especially like the bit where the crew over heels to get the full
rebound, the sheeting in timing must have to be pretty spot on I guess.

Almost as effective as the best form of illegal propulsion I've devised for
myself so far, and that is to rake the rudder thing right back to just before it
actually breaks the surface, then when you waggle the stick bit it acts like a
scull, highly irregular i should think, but useful to get yourself back uptide
or to base if the winds gone entirely, do it hard enough and you can almost
create a wake.
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laser4000 View Drop Down
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Posts: 589 		Post Options Post Options   Quote laser4000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 08 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Even I would assume that was highly illegal, but i shall now go and learn to
perfect it. I especially like the bit where the crew over heels to get the full
rebound, the sheeting in timing must have to be pretty spot on I guess.

Almost as effective as the best form of illegal propulsion I've devised for
myself so far, and that is to rake the rudder thing right back to just before it
actually breaks the surface, then when you waggle the stick bit it acts like a
scull, highly irregular i should think, but useful to get yourself back uptide
or to base if the winds gone entirely, do it hard enough and you can almost
create a wake.


Try sailing an oppy..they have swept back rudders and virtually the first thing the kids pickup is how to make them go by sculling...
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 08 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Even I would assume that was highly illegal, but i shall now go and learn to
perfect it. I especially like the bit where the crew over heels to get the full
rebound, the sheeting in timing must have to be pretty spot on I guess.

Almost as effective as the best form of illegal propulsion I've devised for
myself so far, and that is to rake the rudder thing right back to just before it
actually breaks the surface, then when you waggle the stick bit it acts like a
scull, highly irregular i should think, but useful to get yourself back uptide
or to base if the winds gone entirely, do it hard enough and you can almost
create a wake.

Superb way to knacker your blade and/or stock, mind.
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