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English Dave View Drop Down
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Posts: 682 		Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Protest when OCS?
    Posted: 12 Jun 08 at 9:21am
OK, this happened to me on Sunday in Galway. Downwind there was a standard port/starboard with a singlehanded FX1. I hailed (I was on starboard). Nothing. Now we were getting bloody close and both flying kite so I hailed again. I don;t think he had seen or heard me so he pannicked and crash gybed less than a boat length dead ahead before losing control and bearing off into my flank. So I invited hime to do his turn (cats only do 360) and when he showed no sign I protested.

In the protest room. I was adivised bu the panel that I was OCS and did I want to proceed. I replied that I did because of the contact between the boats. I subsequently won the protest so that I was OCS and he was DSQ.

Question. Was I being petty and should I have let it go seeing as his DSQ wasn't going to help my result?
English Dave
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Contender 541 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1402 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 08 at 10:49am

Disregard of the rules and the penalties incurred is indemic.

Protest was correct in my view

That said a warning off the water - fail to do your turn again and I will be forced to protest you - would have been favourable

 

 
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Spyderman View Drop Down
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Posts: 39 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Spyderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 08 at 11:22am
Sounds to me the PC was fishing for an easy way out of the hearing.
Maybe they a lot on their plate.

From a rule point you don't lose any rights when you are OCS. You still have r.o.w. or have to keep clear when the rules say so and you can still protest.
Your protest served two purposes; to learn the other sailor to abide by the rules and in case of fault do his turn(s) and because of contact - which may have caused damage - have a conclusion of the PC which most insurers will accept.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 08 at 11:31am
You did the right thing. Rule breaches are rule breaches.
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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Posts: 2415 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 08 at 12:13pm

Originally posted by JimC

You did the right thing. Rule breaches are rule breaches.

 

totally agree; otherwise people do not learn the rules and we get chaos!

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English Dave View Drop Down
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Posts: 682 		Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 08 at 12:54pm
Thanks guys. In 30 yrs of sailing this was the first time inside a PC room, although I have sat on a panel.

Fortunately the impact was merely a glancing blow and there was no damage to either boat.

I can see the merit of the "informal warning" other than that I'll probably not be sailing at Galway for another 2 years. I proceeded with the protest because of the two points Spyderman made.

The other sailor was really struggling with his boat. Spinni sheets running around the front of the kite. Because of that I suspect he didn't see or hear me, being preoccupied with an incorrectly rigged spinnaker. Notwithstanding, Port/Starboard is the first rule you learn and the penalty of one turn is explicitly mentioned in the SIs (cos it's an amendment to Rule 44 for cats).
English Dave
Ballyholme Yacht Club

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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 08 at 1:05pm
Remember the DSQ may not have directly affected your results, but there's more than two boats in this race I'm assuming?
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 08 at 4:00pm

The DSQ may not have affected your result in this race but it may have an impact on the result of a series.

Two points:

1. It is not a bad thing to get a reputation as someone who will protest if the have a legitimate grievance. As the reputation develops other boats in the fleet will be acutely aware of your presence and keep out of your way...

2. There is a tendancy in many clubs to try and avoid protests. as a result many legitimate protest are found to be invalid, or having no point as they don't affect the results. As a judge, especially if there has been contact, I believe that I should do my best to hear a protest, and only find that the protest is invalid when there really is no other possibility.

 

Finally, English Dave - if ever you need a NJ at a cat event anywhere on the island I'd be more than pleased to help.

 

Gordon

 
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Fraggle View Drop Down
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Posts: 220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Fraggle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 08 at 3:45pm
Definitely right.  In the laser fleet as so few protests are taken to the protest room no one takes you seriously.  I've protested twice and on both occasions the person I protested failed to show up as obviously didn't think I would go through with it! 
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Posts: 14 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sstannard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 08 at 10:48am

English Dave,

what would have happened if he had not crash gybed? It sounds like there'd have been a collision... which raises the question in my mind: at what point should someone in your situation have taken avoiding action. I'm not saying that you should (as I don't know), but I'd be interested in what people think. There's the overriding requirement on all of us to avoid contact, but hiw does that affect your rights?
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