Sailing backwards

   When is a boat 'sailing backwards' actually sailing backwards? The relevance of my question is when wind versus tide/current, and speed relative to other boats versus actual speed over the ground (water).

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Andymac Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852	Post Options Post Reply Quote Andymac Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Sailing backwards Posted: 06 Apr 08 at 8:12pm
	When is a boat 'sailing backwards' actually sailing backwards? The relevance of my question is when wind versus tide/current, and speed relative to other boats versus actual speed over the ground (water).

Scooby_simon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415	Post Options Post Reply Quote Scooby_simon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 Apr 08 at 8:44pm
	Relative to the water. So if moving backwards in the water, you are going backwards, if while sailing forwards(clue it that even), yet relative to the land, you are still SAILING forwards.
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Brass Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brass Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 Apr 08 at 10:19pm
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radixon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 27 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2407	Post Options Post Reply Quote radixon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 Apr 08 at 10:21pm
	Backwards sailing is when the boom is pushed out and you have wind on the opposite side of the sail. Normally a fun race to do in the summer!!

gordon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037	Post Options Post Reply Quote gordon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 Apr 08 at 3:30pm
	The rules only talk about moving astern, not sailing backwards. Rule 20.3 only applies when a boat is moving astern by backing a sail. Call UMP2 confirms: 1 that moving astern means moving through the wate 2. that a boat required to keep clear because she is moving astern as a result of having backed a sail is still obliged to keep clear even after the sail is no longer backed. Remember, unless rule 20.3 applies the section A rules apply. The boat is still on either port or starboard tack even when sailng backwards, and a clear ahead boat can reverse into an overlap, resulting in the previously clear astern boat, if she bomes overlapped to leeward, becoming subject to a proper course restrivtion under rule 17.1. Gordon
	Gordon

Matt Jackson Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Sep 04 Location: Darlington Online Status: Offline Posts: 962	Post Options Post Reply Quote Matt Jackson Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Apr 08 at 12:50pm
	So if I'm on the start line, stall (happens a lot in light wind) and start moving backwards (unintentionally) I don't lose all rights? But if I back a sail to do it intentionally I do? Is that overly simplistic?
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gordon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037	Post Options Post Reply Quote gordon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Apr 08 at 1:13pm
	That's what the rule says! Note that whilst you may still have right of way over some boats you will also have an obligation to keep clear from others. Keeping clear is not easy when stalled and moving astern! Gordon
	Gordon

craiggo Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810	Post Options Post Reply Quote craiggo Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Apr 08 at 6:05pm
	But if you stall, then aren't you deemed to be above close hauled and therefore lose your rights ?

mike ellis Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 30 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2339	Post Options Post Reply Quote mike ellis Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Apr 08 at 7:10pm
	ive never heard that one before craiggo, is it something to do with proper course?
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craiggo Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810	Post Options Post Reply Quote craiggo Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Apr 08 at 8:21pm
	Not sure. But if you luff above closed hauled at the start you lose any rights, its just a question of whether letting you sails out and stalling is deemed above close-hauled or not ! Sailing backwards and its effect on the rules has always caused me some headaches. I can remember trapping a competitor in between me and the committee boat at the Wilson Trophy and he tried to sail out of it by reveresing, I reversed to hold him and prevent him tacking behind me, and then when it became apparent that he was going to clear the transom of the committe boat I tacked off, gybed, cleared his transom and got a flying start while he tried to get going forwards. Others were trying similar tactics, but not sure if anyone really new where they stood with the results