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Just sailed a F16 Stealth

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English Dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Just sailed a F16 Stealth
    Posted: 10 Mar 08 at 9:51am
Hi all (particularly Scooby)

With the Hurri all rigged and on the slipway a vicious hail storm swept though Ballyholme Bay and the winds whipped up. Although the squall passed, the RO took the sensible decision to abandon, given the forecast storms. But they didn't come (until last night).

So I'm just starting to derig when a friendly Stealth owner asked did I want a try out?

So his crew and mine derigged the Hurri, while I took the jib off the F16 and asked as many questions as poss before launching. This was the first time I had SH'd a cat apart from a D16 and MoB.

So what did I find, given that it was a very gusty day (ie power on-off-on-off) with moderate chop?

A decent windex would have been useful as I only had a bit of audio tape streaming from the pole. This meant I was having to watch the mainsail tell-tales and the advancing chop all at the same time. I tended to sail her slighly broad rather than risk pinching (without a jib to help me bear-off).

I found the cascaded downhaul hard work compared to my 10:1 Hurricane. I also expected the carbon mast to be more responsive at the tip, rather than just being a super light version of an aluminium mast.

I found the rubber UJs at each end of the tiller bar very sloppy compared to the pin-system of  the Hurri/ Tiger/Tornado. Ditto the tiller itself which was too bendy for my taste.

The sheet loads on the spinnaker were surprisingly high. The autoracthets held well but, if class rules allow, I would put a second block in the line to shre a bit more load.

The trapese handles were way too low (by about 8"). An easy one to fix but I'm surprised the boat was supplied like this. I see no point in having a trapeze handle  at "gut" height. Level with the collar-bone or sternum would be my choice.

That's the negative over with. What did I like?

Well obviously I did capsize (gust hit while I was retreiving the spinnaker and I still had the main cleated). Having a carbon mast makes righting soo much easier.

The kite was possbly the easiest hoist I have ever done (6mm line) it is set the same as my SX Hurri (except I use 5mm line) but much easier and quicker.

The kite pulls really nicely whether broad or tight. It also gybes well - with a short foot and no jib there's loads of room. The block is only a foot or so above the hounds so little chance of the mast inverting (although I cleated the mainsheet downwind just in case)

You can definitely feel the T-foils working when you get up to speed. Due to the trapeze problem I didn't feel confident enought to fly the kite from the wire (something I do regularly in the Hurri). I did push the nose in at one point, but as soon as I eased sail whe popped back up again. I fact, the Stealth is impressively quick downwind for a 16 footer. I didn't have enough hands to raise the boards downwind but I think that would helped still further. The steering was light  - neutral upwind and a hint of lee-helm downhill.

The mainsheet and particularly the traveller are very very easy to work.

Upwind the boat tended to slam  the chop a bit, showing its small size. However, once powered up and flying a hull she cut through the waves really well. Again, you have to choose your line carefully, those deep narrow boards need speed to work properly  - pinch at your peril.

The toestraps run from main-beam to rear beam. On the Hurricane they are part of the tramp at the front. beam to beam means you can get them tighter, which for a single hander is important as I need to be able to get my ankles tucked in without  too much fuss. (you also IMO use toestraps more in SH mode).

Bringing the boat back to shore was surprisingly easy. This boat launches from a narrow slip surrounded by rocks and the wind was directly off-shore. However, the boat behaved well with only one rudder and board and I was able to make a safe landing.

When it's not your boat you don't push it too much on the first go, especially as the conditions were so gusty. But I did enjoy it loads. Next time I'll get the trapeze lines sorted (and maybe beef up the tiller with a couple of bamboo poles). It's far more twichy than a Hurricane (maybe due to being half the weight) but I'll hopefully get the opportunity to dial it in. I'm still not sure about trying to raise (or lower) the kite as I pass through a fleet of 30 Lasers while steering with my back foot on the tiller. Happy to take advice on that one.

Thanks to Pete and Dee for letting me play and also to crew Neil for stoically putting the Hurricane to bed while I f ked off without a second thought!
English Dave
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radixon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote radixon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 08 at 10:23am

Blimey, thats an essay and a half.

Scooby Simon will be please you had a go on one, I'm sure he'll be along soon to convince you to buy one!!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 08 at 10:33am
Originally posted by radixon

Blimey, thats an essay and a half.



Slow morning in the office

English Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 08 at 12:46pm

Originally posted by English Dave



A decent windex would have been useful as I only had a bit of audio tape streaming from the pole. This meant I was having to watch the mainsail tell-tales and the advancing chop all at the same time. I tended to sail her slighly broad rather than risk pinching (without a jib to help me bear-off).

 

Having sailed a Hurricane 59 for 10 years, I can understand most of your comments….

 

I just watch the mainsail tell tails and the cassette tape.  No Jib means you have to concentrate much more on what the mainsail tell tails are saying.  You have to play the mainsail a LOT more than the hurricane to get the best out of the boat.


Originally posted by English Dave

Hi all (particularly Scooby)I found the cascaded downhaul hard work compared to my 10:1 Hurricane. I also expected the carbon mast to be more responsive at the tip, rather than just being a super light version of an aluminium mast.

 

Remember (I assume) you are only pulling with one hand while holding the mainsheet and tiller when on the wire.  It’s a more difficult job than on the hurricane as the boat is less stable.  I’ve got a 12:1 multi purchase and it works fine for me so I can get the bottom of the sail to almost touch the boom at the mast. 


Also, remember with no jib and a much more powerful boat upwind (nearly ˝ the weight, ˝ the crew and about 65% of the sail of the hurricane (15sqm vs 23.5sqm)) you will have to work harder.  You need to downhaul harder and earlier, you need to de-rotate the mast earlier and travel the main earlier.



Originally posted by English Dave

Hi all (particularly Scooby)I found the rubber UJs at each end of the tiller bar very sloppy compared to the pin-system of  the Hurri/ Tiger/Tornado. Ditto the tiller itself which was too bendy for my taste.

 

It does feel VERY different, but I found the whole setup better than the Hurricane one, maybe the rubbers were worn?   



Originally posted by English Dave

Hi all (particularly Scooby)The sheet loads on the spinnaker were surprisingly high. The autoracthets held well but, if class rules allow, I would put a second block in the line to shre a bit more load.

 

Madness, get a second set added PDQ!, I have a second set of blocks and mine is find to hold with one hand for ages.

Originally posted by English Dave

Hi all (particularly Scooby)The trapese handles were way too low (by about 8"). An easy one to fix but I'm surprised the boat was supplied like this. I see no point in having a trapeze handle  at "gut" height. Level with the collar-bone or sternum would be my choice.

 

Must ne the owners choice, mine are in the “right” place as per your choice.


Originally posted by English Dave

That's the negative over with. What did I like?

Well obviously I did capsize (gust hit while I was retreiving the spinnaker and I still had the main cleated). Having a carbon mast makes righting soo much easier.

 

 

I dump the traveller as well when windy / gusty as the boat the tracks better during the drops.

Originally posted by English Dave

The kite was possbly the easiest hoist I have ever done (6mm line) it is set the same as my SX Hurri (except I use 5mm line) but much easier and quicker.

The kite pulls really nicely whether broad or tight. It also gybes well - with a short foot and no jib there's loads of room. The block is only a foot or so above the hounds so little chance of the mast inverting (although I cleated the mainsheet downwind just in case)

 

The carbon masts are almost bullet proof and the newer ones, John says they can take all sorts of abuse.

Originally posted by English Dave

You can definitely feel the T-foils working when you get up to speed. Due to the trapeze problem I didn't feel confident enought to fly the kite from the wire (something I do regularly in the Hurri). I did push the nose in at one point, but as soon as I eased sail whe popped back up again. I fact, the Stealth is impressively quick downwind for a 16 footer. I didn't have enough hands to raise the boards downwind but I think that would helped still further. The steering was light  - neutral upwind and a hint of lee-helm downhill.

The mainsheet and particularly the traveller are very very easy to work.

 

 

T foils have got me out of all sorts of problems in the past.  I’ve had the bottom battens of the mainsail in the back of a wave before with no problems. 

Originally posted by English Dave

Upwind the boat tended to slam  the chop a bit, showing its small size. However, once powered up and flying a hull she cut through the waves really well. Again, you have to choose your line carefully, those deep narrow boards need speed to work properly  - pinch at your peril.

Yes, this does happen, move forward a little more and this might cure it.  But remember the underside of the boat is flat (it will plane in the right conditions) and so it’s not as quiet as the 5.9 uphill.

 

Originally posted by English Dave


The toestraps run from main-beam to rear beam. On the Hurricane they are part of the tramp at the front. beam to beam means you can get them tighter, which for a single hander is important as I need to be able to get my ankles tucked in without  too much fuss. (you also IMO use toestraps more in SH mode).

Bringing the boat back to shore was surprisingly easy. This boat launches from a narrow slip surrounded by rocks and the wind was directly off-shore. However, the boat behaved well with only one rudder and board and I was able to make a safe landing.

When it's not your boat you don't push it too much on the first go, especially as the conditions were so gusty. But I did enjoy it loads. Next time I'll get the trapeze lines sorted (and maybe beef up the tiller with a couple of bamboo poles). It's far more twichy than a Hurricane (maybe due to being half the weight) but I'll hopefully get the opportunity to dial it in. I'm still not sure about trying to raise (or lower) the kite as I pass through a fleet of 30 Lasers while steering with my back foot on the tiller. Happy to take advice on that one.

Thanks to Pete and Dee for letting me play and also to crew Neil for stoically putting the Hurricane to bed while I f ked off without a second thought!

 

Glad you enjoyed it, get another go in more sensible conditions, get on the wire with the kite up(anything over 10kts) and it’s a dream. 

 

You know you want one…….

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Post Options Post Options   Quote catmandoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 08 at 3:52pm

time for another ex 5.9 sailor to come out !

 

I sailed 5.9's for about 10 yrs had 3 off them 171, 413 ,455 , guess how many tiller pins I've snapped ??? loads and you get zilch warning ,

 

Was sceptical myself when I got my stealth (ran outa crews for two man cats ) about the uj's on tiller bar , but they work a treat , even show signs of failure as when used on tiller extensions and plenty opportunity to change before failure and I fitted new ones with safety retaining cords moulded in when it came time to change .

other advantage is you can fall like a haddock on your tiller bar whilst stumblin about on wavey tacks without bending it , shock taken by the rubber and carbon doesn't take a bend  , after two seasons I checked my rudder alignement and still spot on , 5.9 you had to check an  resett regularily .

Downhauls can be easily upgraded as a 5.9 sailor they were changed twice in my time , used to take two to pull it on with an ole stiff mast .

I loved my 5.9s and think they are great boats and would recommend to anyone wanting a blast two up without selling a kidney  , but if you have to go solo and want a shade of fun a stealth is a good place to be .

 

after sailing the 5.9sx i had to sail with a kite , not least being xxl In need of a bit more hp to get downhill .

 

bit of planning before dropping the chute makes it easy   and unless too windy can even be done rounding marks with your third hand

 

 



Edited by catmandoo
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Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 08 at 10:35pm

Thanks for feedback. I have no current intention of moving on from a 5.9SX. However, the appeal of a SH with kite is obvious.  I have an arrangement with the boat's owners that the next time my crew cannot sail and the wind isn't too great (they have an all-up weight of 17/18 stones so they're not going to sail a H59 in 20kts) we'll swap and they can take my Hurri. As it's not my boat the mods I can do are limited and will have to be quick and reversable. The trapese adjustment on my Hurri is as per a Tiger (those that I have seen), ie 2:1 and elasticated. If I could put that on the Stealth and get the tiller stiffened (the rubber UJ's I can live with) then things will be OK.

Scooby, where do you mount your second set of spinnaker blocks? The auto-ratchets are at the ends of the main beam.

And what about the boards? Apparently JP says its alright to leave them down at all times but I felt they were tripping the boat a bit downhill.

English Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 08 at 12:18am

Dave,

I have 2 ratchamatics on each hull and run the Spi thru both of them:

180 defree turn thru the aft one, then about 150deg thru the forward one and then to hand.  I've taken the springs off since this picture was taken.

As for plates, I leave mine fully down to about 12 kts and then bring them up a little as the wind goes up.  But I do have monster long plates!!!



Edited by Scooby_simon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 08 at 8:08am
Thanks Scooby. Both your ratchets are further aft than on the one I sailed. Also your spanner is at mast-foot whereas "mine" (don't get any ideas - I haven't got the money or the inclination at the mo) is just below the boom. There's something different about the downhaul as well - I'll compare you photo with the boat next time I am at the club - which will be this afternoon to put an extra rope round my Hurri - storms are coming to NI.

Red line is spinnaker halyard?

PM me with more pics if convenient. This boat is essentially set up as a double hander and the owner far prefers his Spitfire so doesn't spend much time on tuning the Stealth.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 08 at 1:36pm

Dave

A lot has changed on my boat setup since that picture was taken!

I need to take some more pics, but will not be at the club for a couple of weeks as I am off to throw myself down mountains at great speed with planks on my feet.

yes, in that pic, red is Spi halyard.  mast spanner setup has changed as well, as I now have a setup similar to the Shadow for fine tune and a setup to allow me to let it all off for downwind.

My boat is optimised for single handing.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 08 at 10:53pm

OK, with Neil struck down with gut rot I needed a single hander for Sunday and sweet-talked Pete and Dee into sailing my Hurricane while I took the Stealth.

I jury rigged extra blocks for the spinni sheets and stiffened the tiller with a garden stake from B&Q. I taped up one set of trapese lines and adjusted the other to keep me at the right height to the boat. Spanner adjustment and downhaul were still useless but I figured I'd manage.

As I launched a huge squall blew through and racing was postponed while I blasted back and forth. The wind then died almost completely for a race in a drifter and then got back up to a decent F3-4 as I crossed the finished. So I then went for a blast.

Like it, like it a lot! Like most lightwight boats you have to be on the wire to get the beast working properly. But once the kite was up and me on the wire the Stealth was fast and controllable. I didn't need to be too far aft to keep the nose out either.

The only negative thing was that having lead the race for the first two marks (5 kts/F1) which were downwind, I then got mullered upwind. Partly because I was down to just the one sail so my power to weight ratio was not so good, and also because I suspect the the flat hull profile makes it a bit sticky in the really light stuff.

But yes, if I had to sail alone, I can't think of a better cat for the job. However, I'm happy enough with my Hurri for the time being.

English Dave
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