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29er310 View Drop Down
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Posts: 174 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 29er310 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Individual Handicaps
    Posted: 23 Feb 08 at 1:48pm
I was thinking about the problem moths have been having about not getting a proper handicap. Obviously because they are hard to sail the returns will always slightly skewed because beginners will be capsizing and what not. Would it not be possible to have individual handicaps for moth sailors which were devised by the class association for use in handicap events?
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Jamie600 View Drop Down
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Posts: 718 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamie600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 08 at 2:53pm
Sounds like a bit of a nightmare to administer. Clubs are free to set individual handicaps for the people at their own club (mine would currently be around the topper level!) but for an event like the Tiger, how would you cope with several sailors turning up with different numbers, and how would you verify the numbers? Graham Vials could turn up with my handicap and win by miles!
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29er310 View Drop Down
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Posts: 174 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 29er310 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 08 at 4:51pm
The CA could publish a list of numbers for various top sailors Graham Vials etc, could be an interesting way to solve the problem.
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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 08 at 5:06pm
No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.
And they've always been hard for beginners to sail. And it puts the class association in a potentially awkward position. And why would they give anything other than a favourable handicap. And how are they going to work these handicaps out? You might come up with a number relative to another Moth sailor, but how would you know what your 'baseline' handicap was.

Did I mention no.....

That and class associations in most classes are staffed by volunteers, who might not have the time or inclination to spend hours working out how to arrange/organise it...

No.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 08 at 6:11pm

 OK for the odd club race but not practical for open events,

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3 013&KW=paddlers
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29er310 View Drop Down
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Posts: 174 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 29er310 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 08 at 6:17pm

Originally posted by Lukepiewalker

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.
And they've always been hard for beginners to sail. And it puts the class association in a potentially awkward position. And why would they give anything other than a favourable handicap. And how are they going to work these handicaps out? You might come up with a number relative to another Moth sailor, but how would you know what your 'baseline' handicap was.

Did I mention no.....

That and class associations in most classes are staffed by volunteers, who might not have the time or inclination to spend hours working out how to arrange/organise it...

No.

Calm down mate just an idea.

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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 08 at 10:41pm
Sorry.... Computer Keyboard, makes it easier to writ 'no' lots. I realise it comes across a bit aggressive, was aiming for more errrrr humorous or something...
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 08 at 7:48am
If our Australian friends pipe up they'll doubtless tell us that personal handicaps are used quite widely in Australian racing. Its always as well as the scratch results, not instead of though.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 08 at 1:32pm

My thinking on it is this.  If you were to get a pair of int14 sailors and a pair of 49er sailors and make them swap boats, they're going to handle each others boats reasonably well.  Get a laser sailor and a streaker sailor and an ok sailor and most other single handed sailors, ask them to all swap boats and they'll all still handle the boats reasonably well.  Get  a musto, 700 and 600 sailor to swap boats and again, all will feel comfortable. 
And my point = Which one of the top moth sailors has merely jumped into a foiling moth and been winning that same day? 
The time it takes to learn the boat AND be good in the boat for sailors that are already top level in other classes indicates to me that the boats handicap is quite fair for the moment. 
The results of foiling moths at the bloody mary (boats that finished) were 1st, 4th, 179th, 192nd, 223rd.  The guys in 1st and 4th are hardly your average sailor and i'd expect them to do well in any boat!



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tgruitt View Drop Down
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Posts: 2479 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 08 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by JimC

If our Australian friends pipe up they'll doubtless tell us that personal handicaps are used quite widely in Australian racing. Its always as well as the scratch results, not instead of though.


Golf seems to manage ok....
Needs to sail more...
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