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f18 paul 
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Joined: 17 Feb 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
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 Topic: grafhamPosted: 23 Oct 06 at 7:51am |
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just back from the cat open at grafham this weekend. does anyone have any veiws on what could be done about the number of different boats on the same course, it was very difficult at times to avoid all the other boats sailing different angles down wind in paticular. there were a few smashes and if we are not careful we might end up with restrictions on our boat insurance ect
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TornadoSi
Groupie 
Joined: 08 Jun 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 52 |
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Posted: 23 Oct 06 at 11:33am |
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Totally agree, Saturday was dangerous this needs to be sorted out before someone gets hurt, Also the results were way off, i sailed two different classes 1 on sat 1 on sun and every race i finished (4) they scored me wrong, i wasnt the only one after watching the ammount of scoring enquirys filled out on saturday night !! Come on Grafham.
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Olly H
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Joined: 23 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 11 |
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Posted: 23 Oct 06 at 1:40pm |
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I agree about the need to make this event safer- The conditions and small course on Saturday gave the potential for a serious accident.It seems to me that the only way is to limit the numbers, by splitting the event over two weekends- but then that takes something away from the spirit of the event. I think in the 80s and early 90s when there were huge numbers of boats, maybe the fast boats weren't all sailing with kites on windward-leeward courses. Also agree that there were far too many errors in the results. Overall it came out about right, but it's frustrating for sailors to see DNC when they know they did OK in a race! Having said all that, it was still a great wwekend with some excellent racing. |
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pdwarren
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Joined: 14 May 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 23 |
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Posted: 23 Oct 06 at 2:07pm |
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I didn't find it that bad, but that may because I spent most of Saturday upside down... Although one time on Saturday I did find myself heading down towards the gate straight through the middle of the Spitfire start, which was a whole load of no fun.
I don't envy the RC's job of trying to score that lot. With the wind up, it took about the same time to do all 4 starts as it did to do a single lap of the course, and that's a recipe for chaos. There didn't seem to be a lot of scope for setting a longer course, so the only way I can think to improve things safety wise would be fewer starts. It didn't help that on the Sunday the slow and fast courses ended up overlapping. This made me nervous - spi boats know how bad the visibility and manouverability is when you've got the kite up and so know that they've got to get vocal early, but I don't trust non-spi boats to realise that you just can't see them. In terms of scoring, putting a downwind mark below the startline, and crossing the start line each lap makes it easier to count laps, and so could make scoring more accurate - but would be a disaster if the first boats got round the first lap before others had started. So which would you rather? Separate events with lower overall turnout, or fewer, more mixed starts? Personally, I'm for the latter, but I was sailing on a mixed start anyway (Fast SH). Paul |
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Port End Flyer
Groupie
Joined: 30 Aug 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 61 |
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Posted: 23 Oct 06 at 2:23pm |
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Try as I might I could find no reason in these rules http://www.stormy.ca/marine/colregs/ to blame Grafham SC for any collisions that may have occurred at this event! More emphasis is placed on keeping an adequate lookout, and if this is felt not to be possible by those sailing the boat, then the Catamaran designers or manufactures may be at fault? But more surely the case is that the boats crew were at fault, both in not keeping an adequate lookout IAW Rule 5, or not having the required ability to control their vessels speed and course IAW Rule 6. Both have long be seen by most in the sailing fraternity as fundamentally missing from most Catamaran sailors along with respect for the sailing rules in general! |
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Close your eyes and "GO FOR IT!" What else do we pay insurance premiums for?
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Scooby_simon
Really should get out more 
Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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Posted: 23 Oct 06 at 3:17pm |
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Yes, the results were a problem, both courses had a lot of boats on and the PRO's changed the finishing method (hopefully this improved things, lesson learned).
Don't know what the fast course was like, but the slow course was busy, but you keep your eyes open, it is our job as sailors to avoid collisions. I did not feel it was dangerous, just a bit busy.
One problem was that we had the wind in such a direction that we could only use the width of the lake. If we had and east or west wind, the courses could have been much bigger.
As for splitting the event, that may not really be possible as the calendar at Grafham is already full for the next few years.
One option would be to return all fleets to sailing square courses so that the upwind and downwind boats mix less - but the fast fleet want W/L so this is not a good idea.
Another option could be to have a spacer mark at the bottom of the course as well as the top to try and move the downwind boats away from the boats rounding the bottom mark.
Another option would be to have a 3rd course, but then which boats would you put on it ? 5.9, F18, Spitfire and the single handers are all going around the same speed and most have kites and so want W/L.
Was the major problem on the fast fleet the bottom marks ?
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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Port End Flyer
Groupie
Joined: 30 Aug 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 61 |
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Posted: 23 Oct 06 at 3:58pm |
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By what you are saying about the other course coping just fine .......... the egos within the "Fast Fleet" might be the problem and as usual it is easier to blame the Referee than oneself. Edited by Port End Flyer |
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Close your eyes and "GO FOR IT!" What else do we pay insurance premiums for?
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Worthy
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 511 |
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Posted: 23 Oct 06 at 4:09pm |
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Carefull!! The courses were completely different so they imposed different challenges. It was pot luck for who was near you for how easy or hard the bottom mark was. I had one very close call with another 18 who tacked just after the bottom mark and I was still coming downwind, but that can happen in any large championship. |
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oz man
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 26 Apr 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 247 |
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Posted: 23 Oct 06 at 4:25pm |
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serious injury has happend before at this event i broke my arm when i got hit by a hobie tiger coming down wind at about 18 knots, as i was travelling up wind he was approaching me over my right shoulder so completely out of my eyeline and he couldnt see me as he had kite up and spray every where. however accidents happen and you just have to get on with it. the problems this weekend from point of view seemed to be at the leeward gate with kite boats coming in at different angles to non kite boats and one in fleet in particular just seemed to totaly ignore the rules i wont say which fleet it was but you need to be 3 ft tall to sail this boat and have a chip on each shoulder, sorry i got side tracked there. would it have been possible to run 3 courses at the same time. |
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Scooby_simon
Really should get out more
Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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Posted: 23 Oct 06 at 4:33pm |
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Yes, in theory it would on Saturday, and maybe Sunday, but it adds a lot of work (and the need for more people to run it). If there were 3 courses, what boats would go on the extra course ?
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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