Room for an obstruction

   Can a boat, running on port ,request room for an obstruction from a boat on starboard without incurring a penalty?

The obstruction was a moored yacht, near enough and large enough to qualify as an obstruction. 

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Old bloke Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 03 Nov 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 121	Post Options Post Reply Quote Old bloke Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Room for an obstruction Posted: 12 Jun 23 at 2:07pm
	Can a boat, running on port ,request room for an obstruction from a boat on starboard without incurring a penalty? The obstruction was a moored yacht, near enough and large enough to qualify as an obstruction.

laser193713 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 13 May 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 889	Post Options Post Reply Quote laser193713 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jun 23 at 3:44pm
	I can't really picture a situation where this would be an issue, unless both are dead down wind. In which case, simply gybe on to starboard and then call for room. Assuming that you would need to gybe on to starboard in order to avoid said yacht....

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Posts: 6661	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jun 23 at 4:45pm
	Yes and no. The Right of Way boat gets to choose which side of the obstruction she will go - 19.2(a), but if there's an overlapped boat that will be between her and the obstruction she must give it room to pass the obstruction on that side too - 19.2(b). You can't force a give way boat to go the opposite side of the obstruction from you. Edited by JimC - 12 Jun 23 at 5:47pm

Old bloke Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 03 Nov 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 121	Post Options Post Reply Quote Old bloke Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jun 23 at 5:41pm
	If I were clever I would draw a picture. Boat A is running on starboard with the tide ,aiming to leave a moored cruiser on his right hand side.(to complicate he has boats to leeward so can't bear away further . Boat B comes across on port gybe and requests room to pass between A and the moored Boat. A gave room to avoid a collision but didn't protest. Ps, nothing to do with me, I was just a spectator. I assume the port Boat B is in the wrong but ,to me, the room at an obstruction rule wasn't clear

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 23 at 1:43pm
	Was B on the same leg of the course as A? What point of sailing was B on, what was his course relative to A? Describing B as being on 'port gybe' as opposed to 'port tack' suggests he is not beating to windward but beyond that all bets are off (though I would assume he was sailing lower than a beam reach).
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Old bloke Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 03 Nov 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 121	Post Options Post Reply Quote Old bloke Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 23 at 2:55pm
	Same leg of the course,both running almost parallel but converging

ClubRacer Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 26 Sep 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 210	Post Options Post Reply Quote ClubRacer Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 23 at 5:22pm
	What constitutes a substantial course change? 2 boats going near dead downwind and avoiding the cruiser (i'm assuming is wind bound) wouldn't require much change in course to avoid.

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 23 at 5:34pm
	Seems simple enough, if they are overlapped he's entitled to room so A has to give it. Just to expand a little further though, if the cruiser was lying head to wind they would be approaching the bow so, unless a very big boat if the dinghies were more than a boat length or two apart it would be hard to argue it actually was an obstruction by the definition (is this what you are getting at CR?). If it's lying across the wind due to an opposing tide then it's a different matter though? That diagram you hinted at would be a huge help Edited by Sam.Spoons - 15 Jun 23 at 5:41pm
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ClubRacer Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 26 Sep 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 210	Post Options Post Reply Quote ClubRacer Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 23 at 5:51pm
	Yeah exactly. It looks like Port would be entitled to the room at the obstruction as long as the overlap was established with enough time for Starboard and the boats to leeward of Starboard to adjust accordingly to allow the room and the course change for Port to be substantial. I have a feeling gybing for the moored boat would count as substantial. But would having to do that for a large cylinder buoy (or 2) be the same? If they were both on Starboard and the windward boat only had to head up a little more to windward (eg. a boat length) be substantial? Edited by ClubRacer - 15 Jun 23 at 5:54pm

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Posts: 6661	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jun 23 at 7:20pm
	Something like this? Yes, starboard must give room for port to pass the obstruction, but the second they clear the obstruction port needs to get the hell out of it without clouting starboard with her boom if she gybes. I wouldn't like to be port. Don't forget an obstruction is an obstruction, be it 5 feet or 5 miles away. The actual track of the boats is irrelevant to whether its an obstruction or not. It's just that if it's 5 miles away there aren't any problems passing it! I'm a bit unsure of what room port is entitled to. She is entitled to enough room to comply with all her obligations under part 2 rules. That includes, presumably, room to gybe if she must gybe to keep clear of Stbd. However as soon as they are past the obstruction AFAICS port has no entitlement to room, but she has to keep clear. Edited by JimC - 16 Jun 23 at 11:33am