New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Ground effect foiling sailing vessel
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Ground effect foiling sailing vessel
 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Pyza View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 27 May 20
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pyza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ground effect foiling sailing vessel
    Posted: 03 Jun 20 at 2:03pm
Hey new user, first post, should be an interesting one for you all. 

I won't have the money to build this, but was wondering what you all think so I thought to just share with the community.

The idea is to take a the new Americas Cup sailing monohulls, merge it with the concept of the russian lun class ekranoplan GEV. Basically it is a plane that doesn't fly and only hovers above the water on a cushion of air. 

Right now I believe there is a ton of load on those leeward foiling arms to keep the whole vessel airborne and this idea would help the vessels float and keep the vessel level by using the wings instead of the foil (more surface area, larger resistance and symmetrical) Could stop those airborne flights that cause the vessels to capsize. 

Probably be a bit crazy for match racing, not like these vessels won't be - but I was thinking about longer races and when we hit the speed wall. This system I think, would be more stable and take into the aerodynamics of the new foiling sailing vessels vs just the hydrodynamic approach. 

Im not an engineer, just a curious mind. What do you think? 
Back to Top
Riv View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 23 Nov 13
Location: South Devon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 353 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 20 at 12:29pm
Looks interesting, like your sketches, they get the idea over well.

Probably best to post on the:
https://www.boatdesign.net/ as someone on that site may well have thought about this already
Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.
Back to Top
andy h View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 13 Mar 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 69 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andy h Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 20 at 10:01am
Or there's always the Amateur Yacht Research Society: https://www.ayrs.org/ (can't get the link to work so you'll have to cut & paste, not sure what's happened to the forum formatting of late, gone weird for me).  The AYRS are a bunch of free thinkers who might pick the idea up and run with it.
Europe AUS53 & FF 3615
National 12 3344, Europe 397 and Mirror 53962 all gone with regret
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 20 at 12:09pm
Love the sketches.

My first thought, though, is drag.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 20 at 1:17pm
Would be cool to try!

I did a project on WIGs many moons ago, and have sometimes wondered if the wings of a Moth couldn’t double as ground effect wings. However there are many complexities to ground effect vehicles and you have to be quite close to the ground to get much benefit - this means on small craft you are limited by wave height. Pitch stability is a big factor and reverse-delta wings are often used because of this (like Concorde wings backwards), but the rudder t-foil might be quite useful there (which powered WiGs don’t have).
Back to Top
tink View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 23 Jan 16
Location: North Hants
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 20 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by Pyza

Hey new user, first post, should be an interesting one for you all. 

I won't have the money to build this, but was wondering what you all think so I thought to just share with the community.

The idea is to take a the new Americas Cup sailing monohulls, merge it with the concept of the russian lun class ekranoplan GEV. Basically it is a plane that doesn't fly and only hovers above the water on a cushion of air. 

Right now I believe there is a ton of load on those leeward foiling arms to keep the whole vessel airborne and this idea would help the vessels float and keep the vessel level by using the wings instead of the foil (more surface area, larger resistance and symmetrical) Could stop those airborne flights that cause the vessels to capsize. 

Probably be a bit crazy for match racing, not like these vessels won't be - but I was thinking about longer races and when we hit the speed wall. This system I think, would be more stable and take into the aerodynamics of the new foiling sailing vessels vs just the hydrodynamic approach. 

Im not an engineer, just a curious mind. What do you think? 

Nice sketching. Pretty sure that’s what Blue Arrow was trying to achieve. 

I prefer the Leeward foil on the end of the wing, on your current AC inspired design it isn’t going to take too much heel for the wing to crash into the water. Deeply immersed T foils with incident control have to be more efficient that rules influenced ones we have now that require aerospace computing. Also the windward one can give a little bit of negative lift. 
Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com
Back to Top
william Merrill View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 27 Oct 18
Location: USA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3 		Post Options Post Options   Quote william Merrill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 20 at 10:56pm
Ever since I read about how lift-to-drag ratios are so high in ground effect Lyft I have dreamed of ground effect sailboats. These sailboats really would fly. The amount of surface area needed with a wing designed for surface effect is very small in comparison to the load they can carry. Ground effect has been a problem in small plane flight for a long time just as you get ready to land your wings lift improves incredibly and you've got to really change your wing to get it to sit down on the runway
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 20 at 7:57am
The question, though, is not whether lift to drag is greater in ground effect than in free air, but whether lift to drag in ground effect is better than lift to drag in water.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy