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| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
A new class of dinghy? |
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davidyacht 
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Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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 Topic: A new class of dinghy?Posted: 29 Aug 18 at 2:36pm |
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If somebody were to promote a new dinghy into the market ... what should it be?
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Happily living in the past
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iGRF
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Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 29 Aug 18 at 4:13pm |
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Something in between the Contender and the Farr 3.7.
Or maybe they should just put a wire on a Phantom. |
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Cirrus
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Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
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Posted: 29 Aug 18 at 4:21pm |
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Or maybe they should just put a wire on a Phantom. Or a suitably heavy crew perhaps ? ... just a thought.
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davidyacht
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Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 29 Aug 18 at 4:35pm |
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My pitch would be to fill the gap that used to be occupied by Fireflys/N12s/Enterprises, with a white sail boat (with dangly pole) that takes advantage of modern materials; carbon mast, is Aeroesque in weight. Has leg room and can be sat in comfortably. Is technical but does not look scary to wives, girlfriends and children!
The 200 saw this market, but added the assy, which has in fact served it well.
Everything keeps pointing to the Icon ... |
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Rupert
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Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 29 Aug 18 at 4:40pm |
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New boat, not a 50 year old boat like a rehashed Phantom.
Trouble is, the old designers got the balance between light wind speed and blasting speed right, and the only direction left for new boats in the 90s was to compromise the light wind end to increase speed in a breeze. The holy grail is increasing speed right across the wind range, which the Aero has tried to do with very light weight, whilst keeping the hull form and rig quite conventional. Logical step is to do the same for a double hander, isn't it? Or does the shrinking market mean that even a perfect boat is doomed to failure? |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Turkey Pie
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Joined: 18 Nov 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 35 |
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Posted: 29 Aug 18 at 5:33pm |
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I think there could be a place for another twin trap boat, non skiff type.
For example, the 800 is a great boat but is possible overly wide, resulting in a large sail area but still relatively easy to sail to a moderate level but can't compete on handicap when not powered up. I like the idea of something no wider than 5ft with a big rig, an Alto on steroids if you like. Possibly not even completely self draining. I prefer helming so at 14 stone my choices are limited with a lighter crew. Would not go back to hiking as that would be archaic - like driving a manual car!
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iGRF
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Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 29 Aug 18 at 6:50pm |
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FTFY Edited by iGRF - 29 Aug 18 at 6:50pm |
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Posted: 29 Aug 18 at 6:50pm |
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The 12 is light and one of the most modern boats in terms of design surely? Unless you go restricted on foils and wing sails? Not sure that would be a boat for everyone like the Ent, firefly or N12 currently are (or 200). The problem is, modern materials enable us to go lighter and faster. But, lighter and faster are not good properties for a peoples boat to be sailed at a range of venues. As a result it's very hard to improve over older designs. And if you make stronger boat, it just lasts longer, and you get no market turnover... it's a tricky problem to solve! The only boats to really make it as new classes off a USP (asymmetric), and this style of racing has it's niche, which is probably not on the restricted water many clubs use. If a big step in dinghies design is to be made, it will be in the production cost through clever mass production and transport. Basically, you'll need to make a boat for far, far less, that can be used a general purpose family holiday boat and racer.
In the light, it's the hull shape, not sail area that holds it back. If I were to add sail area, it would be masthead kite, as it's slow downwind compared to the 49er/I14 (actually not slow, but has much wider gybing angles). But actually, it's very well proportioned for the type of boats it's trying to be. |
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Turkey Pie
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Joined: 18 Nov 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 35 |
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Posted: 29 Aug 18 at 7:30pm |
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That's not the point I'm trying to make. If you put a mast head kite on the 800 i think it would mostly increase its overall relative performance in a breeze resulting in handicap reduction and it being even more difficult to make it work in the light.
I have raced against a good 14 with T foil and was only marginally slower downwind but was completely blitzed by it upwind and on reaches in a force 4. Similar observations with 49ers. I know the boat i am looking for would be niche and therefore not viable. My skill set can deal with a boat more difficult to sail than a 800 in a breeze because its narrower but similar sail area. This would result in a slower boat which would work better in the light as handicapped to suit.
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Gfinch
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Joined: 09 Nov 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 67 |
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Posted: 29 Aug 18 at 7:32pm |
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So at Salcombe GIN SYC Regatta an almost 20 year old N12 based on a 1987 design (Final Chapter) was giving the DCB (sailed by the current National Champions) a run for its money. It did similar at the RHYC Open. Ok so it has a T Foil rudder but still could win at the Nationals. That is good value for money.....no need to form a new dinghy class! |
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3513, 3551 - National 12
136069 - Laser 32541 - Mirror 4501 - Laser 4000 |
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