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Who can protest?

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fleaberto View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 3:38pm
Here's a thought......
Heading toward the finish with two boats clear in front of me - unsure if I'll catch them by the end to be fair but hey, i'll give it a go.
The two ahead are locked in a tacking duel with me, as I said clearly behind - 5 boat lengths maybe?
Going in to the line, boat A is on starboard, boat B on Port. Boat A calls 'Starboard!' quite clearly but boat B doesn't budge and A takes evasive action. Straightforward Port / Starboard.
However, A doesn't protest - the 'evasive' action saw them remain ahead(even though it was a considerable manouvre).
Now, B - in my mind, should have taken a 720 anyway, but didn't. Carrying on to the line ahead of me by around 2 maybe 3 lengths.
If B had carried out the required 720, I'd have gained a place and a point and, quite possibly, a higher place overall.
My question is, even though I wasn't directly infringed, could I have lodged a protest against B for not taking the required penalty?
I did discuss this at length with the infringee post-race, the answer being: "Well, I'd have had nowhere to go" My reply being: "Tough, then you shouldn't have been there"
Would I have been able to protest ands on what grounds? - is it as simple as I see it? -Straightforward Port/Starboard and no penalty taken?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GML Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 3:55pm
You couldn't protest B for not taking the required penalty, but you could have protested him for breaking rule 10, since you saw the incident - see rule 60.1(a)

You would however have to hail "Protest" at the first reasonable opportunity (which in the circumstances your describe would be almost immediately after the incident) - you can't wait until he has failed to take a 2-turn penalty, and you certainly can't wait until you have come ashore and discussed it with him.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 4:06pm
60.1 A boat may
(a) protest another boat, but not for an alleged breach of a rule of
Part 2 or rule 31 unless she was involved in or saw the incident;


So as you saw the incident you may protest provided you have immediately hailed protest at the time. With the rules as they are waiting until its obvious that neither boat is going to do turns is too late for the protest to be valid.

But if they were in the middle of a tacking duel then the result may not be a straightforward as one might think though. When A tacked onto starboard she acquired right of way. RRS15 says that when a boat acquires ROW she must initially give the other boat room to keep clear. If A didn't feel confident that she had given B room to keep clear after tacking then A was required to take evasive action and no rule was broken. It all depends on how long it is since S tacked.

Another scenario where S might me required to evade port would be if the wind was shifting rapidly and a big lift put A on a collision course when sh was clear before.

Edited by JimC - 01 Jul 15 at 4:07pm
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fleaberto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fleaberto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 4:09pm
I did shout to B that they should do turns - (not 'Protest').
To be honest, I thought: "Hmnn, I'll get that place if I protest" (Seemed a bit Dick Dastardly) and I felt a bit more for the infringed rather than myself in reality....but it did just raise that question in my mind.
Thanks for the clarification though.

Jim, there was plenty of room. The tacking wasn't exactly Olympic match racing and B had plenty of room to see what was going on, where A was and what was likely to happen should they carry on. I understand the shift part but that didn't happen either.
My feeling is that B suddenly froze when realizing "Oops, I've left that a bit late!"

Edited by fleaberto - 01 Jul 15 at 4:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by fleaberto

I did shout to B that they should do turns - (not 'Protest').

Doesn't cut the mustard. Protest must be the first thing you shout. Dumb rule, hopefully it will get changed some time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 4:13pm
Not only should you have protested boat B, but you should have had him thrown out of the club, banned from sailing for life and possibly thrown in jail for a year or 2. Bloomin' port tack boats, thinking they own the place...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fleaberto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 4:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GML Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by fleaberto

I did shout to B that they should do turns - (not 'Protest').

Doesn't cut the mustard. Protest must be the first thing you shout. Dumb rule, hopefully it will get changed some time.

There is no ISAF (or RYA) Case which says that the word "Protest" has to the be the first thing you shout, but the more you say before you use the word "Protest", and the longer you leave it, the more likely that your protest will be ruled invalid.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 15 at 5:32pm
Yes, pretty sure if the first words are " ouch, that was my head, yout**t", protest could probably follow. Of course, these days you might get done for swearing, or something?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ben Gibson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 15 at 12:27am
Perhaps off topic.

If S had a lift and sailed to her VMG (CHC) does she break rule 16.1?
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