OCS

   As we started a race a couple of weekends ago one boat was clearly(from my view, and by about 30m) over. The boat next to us also shouted that he was over. The trouble comes when the RO calls line clear over the vhf and no flags or horns. We protest and display the protest flag. At the end of the race we inform the RO on the committee boat of the protest. Back in the bar, the results come online and he is marked as OCS. So the protest is pointless. Now when we look back at the results they have been changed and he has a result. 

Is this right? Can the just change things around? Im guessing our protest is now pointless as the cut off was the following night.

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gbrspratt Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 26 Sep 11 Location: Felixstowe Online Status: Offline Posts: 170	Post Options Post Reply Quote gbrspratt Report Post Quote Reply Topic: OCS Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 1:23pm
	As we started a race a couple of weekends ago one boat was clearly(from my view, and by about 30m) over. The boat next to us also shouted that he was over. The trouble comes when the RO calls line clear over the vhf and no flags or horns. We protest and display the protest flag. At the end of the race we inform the RO on the committee boat of the protest. Back in the bar, the results come online and he is marked as OCS. So the protest is pointless. Now when we look back at the results they have been changed and he has a result. Is this right? Can the just change things around? Im guessing our protest is now pointless as the cut off was the following night.

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 2:47pm
	A pc can extend the time limit if there's good cause. But if the rc who were looking down the line say no boats were over it would take extraordinarily strong evidence to overturn that.

gbrspratt Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 26 Sep 11 Location: Felixstowe Online Status: Offline Posts: 170	Post Options Post Reply Quote gbrspratt Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 3:36pm
	But they scored him OCS originally. No need to protest or overturning at the time. Them saying no boats over on the VHF, is that "legal"?

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 4:05pm
	There are few restrictions on what the RC can or cannot do, but if they say "all clear" on the VHF and then score a boat OCS my guess it would require quite extraordinarily strong evidence at the inevitable redress hearing for the boat not to be reinstated. Worth reading Case 31 and Case 79 in the case book: http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/20132016ISAFCaseBookUpdatedJan2015-[18282].pdf The RC are always allowed to correct errors on published results, and if they say typing OCS was an error then I think you will have to accept that, but I also think that that error would be sufficient to justify accepting a late protest. However as I said before, without extraordinary evidence the chances of winning such a protest are not high. If you were on a PC and at a hearing the RC says to you all boats were clear from sighting along the line, and two other competitors say they think one boat was OCS, who are you going to think is more likely to be mistaken? Edited by JimC - 24 Jun 15 at 4:14pm

fudheid Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Apr 11 Location: 51.53 N 01.28 E Online Status: Offline Posts: 241	Post Options Post Reply Quote fudheid Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 4:47pm
	but if the yacht in question knows they are over, they are in principle bound to return? relying on 'all clear' as a defence. the OP states they were 30m clear of the line!!
	Cheers you only me from over the sea......

sargesail Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459	Post Options Post Reply Quote sargesail Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jun 15 at 8:42pm
	Well I think you need some more info: Did the OCS boat request redress? If no then you are in the business of requesting redress yourself - improper action of the RC. And you have grounds for a late redress because of the results change timing. If yes and it was granted then I think your position is more difficult. But my guess at what happened here is: OCS boat approaches RC and says, 'but there was no recall'. RC reinstates OCS boat. But fudheid is correct - even in the absence of a recall signal a boat which knows itself to be over must return. Lot's of conjecture there but where race management is poor that is often how it pans out. I am constantly amazed that RCs do not comply with the rules and protest boats for not sailing the course. Seen so many messy protest entanglements as a result!