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crakkers View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 Mar 15 at 10:21pm

Hi

I witnessed the following today.

Fairly windy, but not excessive by any means - about 15 -18 kts

Boat approaching windward mark on STB trying to lay it by pinching - cant, luffs up, inadvertently  sort of tacks, but does not, falls back head to wind. He is NOT foul of the mark!

Meanwhile boat approaching on port, bears away to avoid collision with in irons boat. As port sails under the stern, in irons boat starts to travel backwards and metal rudder stock hits port at the shrouds area causing damage

In irons boat is not interested at looking at the damage or rectifying.

Port was in control and bore away to avoid collision but did not anticipate in irons would begin to travel backwards. It was definitely the backwards travel that caused the collision and damage. Had the in irons boat stayed still or began to sail forward no collision would have taken place.

What do you think?

Ouch
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JimC View Drop Down
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16.1, 16.2

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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 7:50am
Seems about right, as the going astern rule involves backing sails, not drifting.
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 12:44pm
Depends what 'sort of tacks' means.

If she passed head to wind, then it's rule 13, while tacking, until she reaches a close hauled course.

Otherwise, yes, rule 16.2.
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Posts: 94 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GML Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 1:02pm
I think both boats should have hailed "Protest" and conspicuously displayed a red flag at the first reasonable opportunity (unless their hull length was less than 6m); they should then have submitted a written protest within the protest time limit. A Protest Committee could then have found facts, drawn conclusions and made a decision.

If you witnessed the incident on the water then you could, and in my view should, have done the same.
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Seems about right, as the going astern rule involves backing sails, not drifting.

You could argue that if they were in #in irons' and being blown backwards they were not drifiting.

Either way I suspect the boat on port would have been exonerated as the RoW boat effectively changed course so the port boat could no longer keep clear (and should have taken a 2 turn penalty).
Paul
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Posts: 4 		Post Options Post Options   Quote crakkers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 2:37pm
Thanks for your replies so far.

having talked to PORT, he is more concerned that the boat is damaged and STB does not want to know what so ever. PORT was not interested in any protest or the like, but would like the repair paid for.

What course of action does he have?
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 2:43pm
He probably should have put in a protest at the time. Be hard to prove anything now. I know we have had a thread recenty which said that the outcome of a protest doesn't mean admitting liability, but I'm pretty sure insurance companies look at it.

What it looks like you have now is "it was your fault" "no it wasn't" situation. Not sure that the word of other people who were out there would be of much use now, either, unless it somehow went to court, which sounds like a very bad idea.

I'm sure there are people more wise on here than me about these things, though.
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 3:13pm
I agree Rupert. The last time I submitted a claim for damage I was asked if a protest was heard as they would use that as the basis of deciding liability for insurance purposes.
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 15 at 4:59pm
Agreed. If there's damage you should protest. That's a convenient way of getting facts and witnesses together at the time. However as that opportunity is gone he's now got the job of trying to round up witnesses and evidence for the insurance company. Not really any different from a car accident where the police didn't attend though.

If he doesn't want to involve insurance companies though it could be rather awkward, might end up with small claims court or something. Trouble is if you involve lawyers, even for opinions, you soon spend more than a repair will cost you, which might be what the other party is depending on.

The other thing might be to talk to the club officers. I don't know about this stuff, but ultimately might refusing to negotiate/communicate about damage/insurance end up with RRS 69 as an ultimate sanction? I don't know, just offering up the possibility.

Edited by JimC - 09 Mar 15 at 5:04pm
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