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Old age or weather conditions

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Steve411 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Old age or weather conditions
    Posted: 23 Feb 15 at 8:56am
Sailing yesterday seemed really hard work. It was windy, but not excessively so - max gust of 27 knots with the average about 20 or so. The thing is it felt a lot windier with really heavy sheet loads. Now, it could be that I'm just getting weak in my old age, but someone at the club suggested it was due to the weight of moisture in the air - it was raining very heavily the whole day. It sounds reasonable that this could create heavier sheet loads but is it correct?
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 15 at 9:03am
Nope.... it's just mother nature telling you to buy a Solo.
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Woodbotherer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 15 at 9:09am
They were pretty heavy gusts coming down, it's often like that ahead of a front. Got to our lake first thing, nothing, by the time the buoys were out and the five sounded it was a reasonable breeze maybe two, then as the race progressed it got puffier and puffier exactly as the forecast had predicted, ended up having me in irons up the last beat and today I can hardly walk, but it was a moral victory I managed to hold on to a 2nd place all the way around until onshore when a nasty corrected time gust sent me from 2nd to last.. LOL
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Steve411 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 15 at 9:18am
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

They were pretty heavy gusts coming down, it's often like that ahead of a front. Got to our lake first thing, nothing, by the time the buoys were out and the five sounded it was a reasonable breeze maybe two, then as the race progressed it got puffier and puffier exactly as the forecast had predicted, ended up having me in irons up the last beat and today I can hardly walk, but it was a moral victory I managed to hold on to a 2nd place all the way around until onshore when a nasty corrected time gust sent me from 2nd to last.. LOL

Conditions exactly the same at our place.

Steve B
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Woodbotherer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 15 at 9:55am
As to your original assertion we often have this discussion on the windsurfing forum about wind density and sail sizes, given we can all hold up a bigger sail in a given windspeed in say Egypt than the cold water vapour laden air we get here when a front approaches.
It's obviously more apparent to us hanging onto the boom direct, but it's exactly right what you said, it was tougher yesterday, I'm still struggling with the concept of sailing sheeted out using the kicker it's all a bit alien to me, but it certainly was the only way to survive towards the end of yesterdays race especially having a busted footstrap on one tack (the one I had to use more often naturally).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 15 at 10:41am
It does seem to be true that air in warm places has less "push" for the same speed. I think it is also  that cold weather slows reaction times, that the buffeting wind is harder to handle, the rain stops us looking out as far, so we don't see the gusts as early, and yes, some of us aren't as strong as we used to be.

Really not gonna get a Solo, though. Topper, maybe...
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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boatshed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 15 at 11:10am
Air at 5 Deg C is about 3% - 4% denser than air at 20 Deg C

Which isn't that much.   Equivalent to going from 10 knots to 10.4 knots.

It's probably the frequency and size of the gusts that is felt much more.   I think the load on the sail generally increases by the square of the wind speed, so, going from 20 knots average to a 27 knot gust will be really be felt.  Welcome to Winter sailing!
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Woodbotherer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 15 at 11:21am
Originally posted by Rupert



Really not gonna get a Solo, though. Topper, maybe...

What about a Streaker Rupert? It keeps coming up Streaker on this lake, another one has appeared, one of the bandido bros had to use it because Pancho Villa now has a job guarding the nations shores on shiftwork, anyway he was making himself a right nuisance amongst the Lasers and just wouldn't get back down the back of the fleet where they belong...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 15 at 11:56am
Sunday am at Burghfield given forecast there was a reasonable turnout but the wind was getting progressively stronger.  But very manageable really.  It got a bit tougher towards the end as the front got closer with high levels of turbulent air down at the surface - so very rapid speed and direction changes.  Dare I say it on this forum 'Blaze conditions' (but please do substitute for your favorate class if it likes a bit of breeze !).

Afternoon was a bit different ..... Very few starters in any class so the RO sensibly looking to save a few minutes started what remained of all classes together (well there was only one asymetric, one OK, no lasers and a handful of Blazes left).  One in our midst has been doing the frostbite with his 'Fire' sail on Sunday afternoons and I'm joining in occasionally with one myself to learn more about how to get the best out of it.   That was fortunate this time.  Wind was by now lets say 'interesting' and 'out-to-get-you' plus much stronger in the gusts and prepared to take no prisoners if you made a slight mistake. 

Fantastic fun ... Blaze-Fire reminds me of board racing in challenging conditons when you have the right gear - near constant planing both up and down wind !  Even so it was tough - A Blaze alongside even broke a lower in one severe gust.  On another leg a near total dump of the kicker was required to be sure of keeping some token amount of control on a reach and get 'below' one of BSC's islands with certainty  .. the other Fire ended up poking around in the bottom of the lake with his mast tip.  Don't know the actual peak gust speeds but low 30's seemed realistic - but it was the speed of wind change that was the real challenge.  Anyway the RO could see the way it was going and after less than 40 minutes finished the race ... with nobody complaining.  

It always feels windier in winter imo - I don't think it is much to do with the relative density of the air though.  The air however often seems more turbulent and winter clothing + lethagy just does make it seem toughter.

And yes ... I hobbled away afterwards on Sunday as well.

Mike L
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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 15 at 12:14pm
I did some research into this, I noticed that for a given windspeed things could feel different, sometimes heavier sometimes lighter. The results were interesting:

Temperature effects air density: colder = denser (no surprises there)

Altitude: lower = denser (clearly)

Atmospheric pressure: Higher = denser (obviously)


but the surprise for me was moisture. I thought damper = denser but I was wrong, wrong, wrong.

Water at the molecular level weighs less than air by quite a margin

Moist air is lighter than dry air.

so the heaviest most powerful air is: High pressure, cold and dry.

edit......not sure what happens if there is solid water (rain drops) in  the air though.


Edited by transient - 23 Feb 15 at 12:24pm
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