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Design a boat for bigger sailors

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Design a boat for bigger sailors
    Posted: 01 Jan 15 at 11:49am
Sort of prompted by some other posts I've been mulling over in my head what it might take to design a mass market boat for two reasonably substantial adults, and it strikes me that its a remarkably difficult proposition.

Mass market popularity seems to indicate performance roughly in the Albacore area. Faster boats are not popular.

No-one likes hauling a wayfarer round the dinghy park - a boat needs to be light. Otherwise you might as well have a Wayfarer.

Weight carrying capacity mandates size, probably particularly length.

The boat needs to feel agile and responsive and as if its going fast. No-one likes a clumsy tub.

There needs to be enough sail area that two lightweights don't just blow away the intended crew, but too much sail area also seems to be a turnoff.

I suspect an emphasis on light airs performance would pay off, especially if it would feel good in such conditions.

All in all the big challenge would seem to be in getting the boat to go slower, not quicker, but without compromising the feel, and it strikes me as quite a challenge...
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Kev M View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kev M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 15 at 12:33pm
Are heavier boats less sensitive in performance to extremes of crew weight than lighter boats? In my limited experience it seems than boats formerly defined as big boys' boats have been taken over by lighter people as boats have got lighter and rigs have gone carbon.

Would a proper big boys' boat need to be sufficiently powerful in light airs as to be too much for lightweights and then easy to depower as winds build but still too powerful for lightweights. I suppose the rig might allow lightweights to depower in light winds but if they'd be stuffed as the wind built so the boat would be umlikely to be attractive them.

How do you address the issue of two heavy people? It seems a lot of double handers are designed for a light helm and a heavy(er) crew.
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rb_stretch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 15 at 12:37pm
Something I've obviously pondered in my own search for such a boat. Like you I think length is probably one of the most important factors in order to distribute the weight more easily. Other than that it gets tricky to avoid creating a boat that will be mostly faster for light weights without relying on oversize sails.

One feature of an Albacore that seems to help is lots of rocker and a round bilge. My sense is that this stops the boat from marginal planing ie it is either planing or it isn't. This appears to restrict the opportunities for light weights to just get planing when heavyweights can't. You really do need to be fully powered up to break through the bow wave.


Edited by rb_stretch - 01 Jan 15 at 12:38pm
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 15 at 12:47pm
X1 and x0 is a nice modern boat fitting that brief.
But perhaps too "fast" in a PY sense to fit the brief, although that is maybe a fAcet of being a light airs specialist (inevitae for a 2 man hiker no kite)
Maybe an X1/x0 with a bucket tied to the back :-)
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 15 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Maybe an X1/x0 with a bucket tied to the back :-)

Mmm. So how do we get the bucket effect without the boat feeling as if it has the bucket? If we want a boat that feels fast without being fast...

Rocker kills performance and adds flexibility and weight carrying... A lot of rocker especially distributed aft might bring the ends of the boat out too far for lightweights. But boats with lots of rocker also tend to the bucket towing feeling IME...

What boats can people think of that feel faster than they really are? Are there any clues there?
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 15 at 1:09pm
Thing is, if it is totally benign and fits the reqts, what is wrong with being say 950 not 1050?
Rocker is good for sub 5 kt boat speed which is quite a high freq for this type of boat, and minimising it is only beneficial in the 6kt plus speeds where you get more "glide" as you say.
Is it the fact you'll be at the front of most mixed hcap fleets ie not getting racing with the lads?
Kestrel ex. Kite fits the bill but is heavy heavy. Bandit with kite at 1030 ish.
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 15 at 1:58pm
Define 'bigger sailors'.
It seems to cover anything from 14 stone bloke plus 11 stone wife upwards.
There are dinghy sailors at 17stone or more.
I think sailig is more accommodating to heavy people than most sports?
Possible exception Rugby?
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Jeepers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jeepers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 15 at 2:03pm
Might be missing the point, but the RS400 seems to tick most if not all the boxes here. Certainly more popular than an Albacore.
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sawman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sawman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 15 at 3:38pm
sounds like you are describing a kestrel
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 15 at 3:57pm
Problem with the RS400 is the asymmetric kite, there are lots of waters where an asymmetric just does not work.  The bigger question is whether there should be a kite at all.  

I fully go with lots of turn on the aft bilge, if you make it difficult to keep the ends in with lightweights they should be disadvantaged.  Big plate would also help heavy weights.  

The Solo's optimum helm weight is 83kg, I think that lightweights struggle due to the big foils, relatively narrow boat, lack of easily adjusted rig, and relatively high hull weight, making it less sensitive to small weight differences.

I can see a market for a modern day two sail boat sitting between the Albacore and the Enterprise, that is not quite as extreme as the X1 or the Icon.


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