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Melges 14

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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Melges 14
    Posted: 23 Jan 15 at 1:25am
My experience is that the Phantom and 300 are definitely faster than the Zero (and 8.1) when sailed by comparable sailors.

To be fair the 8.1 is going to be slower than the Zero but maybe not by enough to make is really unfair and in a drifter the 8.1 would clean up over a Zero as it goes as well as a British Moth does in those conditions.

Not really had much Aero comparison yet but in the really light it should go better having a bigger sail and lighter hull (the one at YDSC for the Brass Monkey certainly seemed to be quick in the really light whereas he was nowhere when the wind picked up a little).

Time will tell! My personal view is that it would be nice for the *ero fleets to get together at some point and have a combined event all for fun rather than ultra serious racing.
Paul
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Null View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 2:31pm
Agree with James.  Owning a Zero and having owned the others mentioned (other than finn and 8.1)  The 300 and Phantom are faster in my opinion.  Dan and Andy Couch had some good racing.  but in my opinion and experience he Phantom is faster by about a minute in an hour.  The 300 the same.

Personally i would put the Blaze, 300 and Phantom in the same category for rating purposes. Zero, Aero 9, Finn, 8.1 in with the other
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by Rupert

An alternative is the idea that the CMBA use in the USA. The rig is standard (in their case the old rules low aspect Moth rig) and you bung under it a hull that fits some pretty basic criteria. Do that with 2 or 3 rig design sizes (say ones that match the 5, 7 and 9 of the Aero, but I bet RS wouldn't agree...) where you can then put a hull of certain dimensions under it. You get no expensive rig development coats that are a large portion of a development class, but can design hulls to suit, some of which might become one designs, like the Europe did.

Edit - thinking about it, this is effectively what the Open Sailing Canoe Group have done, having given up on defining what a canoe is.



 somewhat along the lines of the 'control' classes in motor racing where  certain parts are strictly one design ( and engines etc sealed)  and others are fairly  free
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by gordon1277

Turtle
Why not let the RS300,Finn and Phantom in as well? I am positive both the Aero 9 and Zero's handicap will drop to close to the Phantom as more results are recorded.

Fine by me- as long we accept the 300 will cream the lot of them!!!  In truth, I would personally put the Phantom and 300 in a faster category, but the Rooster 8.1 and Finn could fit in imho.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 1:59pm
An alternative is the idea that the CMBA use in the USA. The rig is standard (in their case the old rules low aspect Moth rig) and you bung under it a hull that fits some pretty basic criteria. Do that with 2 or 3 rig design sizes (say ones that match the 5, 7 and 9 of the Aero, but I bet RS wouldn't agree...) where you can then put a hull of certain dimensions under it. You get no expensive rig development coats that are a large portion of a development class, but can design hulls to suit, some of which might become one designs, like the Europe did.

Edit - thinking about it, this is effectively what the Open Sailing Canoe Group have done, having given up on defining what a canoe is.




Edited by Rupert - 22 Jan 15 at 2:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 1:53pm
I don't think many boats would be launched into the categories, and if they were, they would be designed to be the fastest boat in it, so meaning you needed that boat to win in that category - meaning you defeat the object of it all. For me, the only way it would work is as a banding together of already existing designs to stop them falling into oblivion. I hope neither the Aero or Zero will have this problem for many years to come. It might work in windsurfing, where there is far less difference in design between boards than there is between boats, so sail size can be used as a category, but I simply can't see it working in dinghy sailing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 1:52pm
Turtle
Why not let the RS300,Finn and Phantom in as well? I am positive both the Aero 9 and Zero's handicap will drop to close to the Phantom as more results are recorded.
Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 1:40pm
This is because boats are being designed and launched as new classes, or worse lipstick classes, not into new categories.

I know it's pipe dreaming, but the Aero and Zero racing together would be great.  And to bring this loosely back on topic, if some mug wants to pay import duty on an M14, then fair enough... let's let Daddy Warbucks come play too.  


Edited by turnturtle - 22 Jan 15 at 1:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 1:23pm
Effectively, classes are in categories in handicap racing. My Lightning 368 is in the 1150 category, currently. Trouble is, the categories are so small you rarely get to sail against other boats in the same one - apart from maybe other Lightning 368s, but then that is One Design again.

So open them out. have an 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ,13 category. The Lightning, Solo, Byte, Firefly would fit in the 11 box, along with many more. But 100 points on the handicap system is a hell of a lot. The OK and Enterprise would also be in there, and the Comet. What chance would the Comet have of winning? So, you reduce the category size, and so the number of boats on the start line is reduced - halved, maybe, if you have 8, 8.5, 9, 9.5 etc. And it is still biased towards the boats at the fast end of the box. So, divide it again, and you end up roughly with what we have now. I still think that a 10 point granularity is close enough, but you still end up with handicap racing as being a more fair system than categories.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 15 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by Null


Which leads me seamlessly on to how the dinghy community is or can be communicated to nowadays.  There are no magazines (Y&Y is frankly toilet paper) Sailing Anarchy delivers no real message other than forum noise.  Y&Y.com is great, but it doesn't fill the gap completely and is only really a hub for PR.  So its left to social media, which is full of all kinds of bias.  Seems to me there is a glaring gap for a consumer led website or digital mag for the club sailor.

Would think that the future model is probably far better based on YouTube/social media. Something like the GLobal Cycling Network: http://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com/

So who would be good presenters? With preferably at least one woman? Is the market big enough?


Edited by Presuming Ed - 22 Jan 15 at 1:22pm
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