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PY Inland vs Sea
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    Posted: 19 Oct 14 at 11:04pm
The concept of PY allows many clubs to race around the country. There is no doubt that it can be improved, put it has worked OK for some time. 

 The speculation of the "great lakes" solution cannot be right it is subject to speculation which has to be wrong. Frankly the GL ratings are in La La Land for some boats. We should reject them IMHO. why do they have any creditability at all?

The big issue with the RYA PY is primarily down to the difference in sailing conditions. A major step for PY would be simply to give sea venues and inland venues a separate rating. The Phantom was a killer inland, but was exceptionally difficult to sail to handicap on the sea (because its optimised for inland) now its just a penalised boat.

An inland/sea split handicap RYA py must be a simple spreadsheet, but will even out performance.

Why wouldn't you do this? 
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Posts: 328 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 14 at 11:16pm
It is not that simple. What about tidal "sea" waters, e.g. Chichester Harbour, where local handicaps correctly bear limited relation to PY?
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Posts: 317 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Blue One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 14 at 11:32pm
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 12:00am
Originally posted by SimonW99

. why do they have any creditability at all?

Because the people who should be looking after the system are not doing their job?

Or

Because the computer system dominated by one outfit is wrong.

Or

Both of the above.

Edited by iGRF - 20 Oct 14 at 12:02am
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 12:15am
.........because most clubs and sailors don't understand the py system. The RYA chaps acknowledge that the handicap requirements for different waters vary. They encourage clubs to adjust locally for that very reason. They must be sick to Bloody death of saying it......but most clubs have not got the gumption to do it. Most sailors don't want to adjust locally either......

..........they want mummy to do it for them. Ffs

Edited by transient - 20 Oct 14 at 12:25am
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 12:51am
I don't know what most sailors understand or not.

However, I for the life of me cannot understand the endless bleating about something that everyone has the power to change. RYA, PYAG, whatever provide a base and don't tell anyone it's written in stone. 
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 1:17am
You say in your first sentence you do not know what most sailors understand.......yet in your second statement you demonstrate that you clearly do....

Competitive nitpicking aside: With regards to the topic, most sailors need a kick up the arse.

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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 1:26am
It's the boundaries that are the problem. As I've said before inside Portland Harbour is much more like Grafham Water than Grafham Water is like Upper Thames SC...
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 7:29am
The clubs must bear some responsibility here. I was speaking to a guy at the weekend who's club have a great personal Handicap system in place (taking a lot of effort) but will not under any circumstances amend the rya defined py. Don't quite understand that one.
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 14 at 7:32am
I don't think my comments above are in anyone's hands to materially change, that comment misses the point. No system is perfect, but let's think about the key things that make a boat perform differenty at different venues. Water state and wind speed are the key. Tide doesn't matter unless sailing an international moth. An overpowered boat won't sail to handicap in windier coastal venues. Boats with scow or light hulls will generally perform better on flat water than in waves.

So no system is perfect, don't overwork it, but a generic coastal weighting would be very easy and a help. The data will be there. Portland is a sea club, it's wind speed will average more than inland and it can get pretty rough still for a dinghy.
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