Demise of the double hander

   With the last double handed class about to lose fleet status at my club, what is to blame for the demise of the non-assy double hander?  is this phenomenon confined to Hunts, or is it a nationwide trend?

Boats like the Scorpion, the Lark, the Ent all suit the very many gravel pits that are scattered across the country, where an awful lot of sailing takes place, but numbers seem to be heading down, and it also seems they aren't being replaced by other double handers, the single handers are taking over.

Is it really that hard to find and manage a crew/helm partnership, or is it something else?  Would a modern Scorpion type dinghy, for example, make it trendy again, or is it a lost cause?

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winging it Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 22 Mar 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3958	Post Options Post Reply Quote winging it Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Demise of the double hander Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 6:15pm
	With the last double handed class about to lose fleet status at my club, what is to blame for the demise of the non-assy double hander? is this phenomenon confined to Hunts, or is it a nationwide trend? Boats like the Scorpion, the Lark, the Ent all suit the very many gravel pits that are scattered across the country, where an awful lot of sailing takes place, but numbers seem to be heading down, and it also seems they aren't being replaced by other double handers, the single handers are taking over. Is it really that hard to find and manage a crew/helm partnership, or is it something else? Would a modern Scorpion type dinghy, for example, make it trendy again, or is it a lost cause?
	the same, but different...

jeffers Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048	Post Options Post Reply Quote jeffers Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 6:32pm
	I think it is the committment that is required from both people. Not many can commit to be there every weekend. I know when I crewed in a Fireball there were a lot of weekends when 1 or other of us was not available so we both had single handers as well.
	Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74

rich96 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 20 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 596	Post Options Post Reply Quote rich96 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 6:42pm
	Its a massive shame Sailing a single hander is just so easy I guess - decide on the day if you fancy it, turn up, sail or don't, have a drink or don't and then go home. It takes no real planning to sail on your own. We still have double handers at our club but they are hugely outnumbered.

Medway Maniac Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788	Post Options Post Reply Quote Medway Maniac Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 6:46pm
	Training seems to focus so much on helming that I guess everyone expects that that is what they must end up doing. Can't remember the last time I heard anyone extolling the (undoubted) virtues of crewing, even if with some mates the other week we were agreeing that the crew might provide up to 60% of the racing input on a 49er. When I was learning, most people learnt by crewing for at least a season before thinking about getting their own boat. Very few formal courses in those days. Actually, if joining a new club, I'd seriously consider trying to crew at first - it gets you 'into' the club very quickly as you get a little social circle on a plate.
	Wilsonian SC 3000 Class

davidyacht Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345	Post Options Post Reply Quote davidyacht Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 6:54pm
	I also think that the skill level of the crew required to sail lighter and more sophisticated boats precludes picking up inexperienced crews from the shore. At Salcombe there were a few helms who potentially would have bought Merlins and created a good fleet but have ended up in RS400's because their partners wanted a thwart. The National 12 fleet has struggled as child crews have got bigger, and the parent's supply of replacements have dried up. Also the winged rudder thing has not helped, given the investment required and the potential of weed. The consequence is a gradual migration to our excellent Solo fleet, which continues to have high teen turnouts, week in week out.

iGRF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499	Post Options Post Reply Quote iGRF Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 6:59pm
	Honestly, it's been said often enough by me, what's in it for the crew? Even if you do get glory, he/she doesn't. Until double handers get treated as a team and they are a team it's not going to happen really is it? Give me a good crew and I'll win stuff, don't and I'm JAFAH (just another f'ing average helm.). And the sport prejudiced most of the recent new batch of double handers with handicap issues and the assyms are prejudiced by courses. Scorpions Enterprizes Jeeps? Who in their right mind wants to mess about in those things. Merlins? 5 Ohs? Hell 8 years in and they're far to complex for me to understand and no I can' be asked to find out. So that leaves Furballs, but unfortunately the last Ford Capri or Escort Mexico you require to tow them about rusted away round here and you wouldn't want to put one on the sea now would you? So then you get a nice new uncomplicated double hander and we're right back to another handicap discussion as the protectionists move in. Hows the X1 going in that department I wonder? Late edit, the other reason, if you're new and ask about it you get pointed at a washing up bowl, or a bloody only just better than watching paint dry, boring 2000, I mean why would you? Hardly fun exciting stuff is it? Not when the lawn needs mowing. Edited by iGRF - 08 Oct 14 at 7:03pm
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davidyacht Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345	Post Options Post Reply Quote davidyacht Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 7:30pm
	One thing going for a crew is that a good one can participate in the sport for little or no investment in the hardware, a very good crew can pick their helm.

Medway Maniac Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788	Post Options Post Reply Quote Medway Maniac Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 7:36pm
	I think one of the reasons why the Fireball fleet is so strong is that it is a mecca for keen crews who are keen to do more than just sit there playing an asymmetric like a big jib. Fireballs have been known to be owned by the crew. But to take Grumph's point about crew's being properly acknowledged, I think we are nearly there - at least outside East Kent. I'm happy that when we have a rare success (for us) on the Wayfarer circuit, people seem very happy to acknowledge my input. The clubs whose results sheets include only the name of the helm are few and far between. As davidyacht says, in appropriate classes people are reluctant to pick up scratch crews - they know how important they are. The main problem is though, I think, that the way people are introduced to sailing these days puts all the emphasis on helming skills, and no mention is made of how important crews can be.
	Wilsonian SC 3000 Class

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 7:42pm
	I was teaching on Sunday, and one of the students asked if boats with 2 people in were allowed to race, or only single person boats. I think there was one 2 hander out. I suppose I used to sail a 2 hander a lot, but don't really any more. First kids got in the way (one of us had to be minding them), then the rest of the family go to church on a Sunday morning, so mostly I sail by myself. During August Kathryn and I sailed the Firefly together at the regatta, and most of the other 2 handed boats out were Fevas, so kids are still sailing them. In fact on Saturday we will have 2 groups out there in doublehanders - the stage 4 group in Fevas and the older ones learning the art of symmetric spinnakers. And before I get accused of child abuse by GRF, I'd like to point out I was requested by the juniors to put the session on!
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sargesail Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459	Post Options Post Reply Quote sargesail Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 7:57pm
	Well my problem now is having time to race the 300 now I have the kids as crew in the 2000. Which is a nice problem. Of course demographics change. In the 2000 we are seeing the next lot of child crews getting involved, which will be great - the 10-14 year olds from when we started have flown the nest. I take a lot of the down in the mouth dinghy sailing is shrinking stuff with a pinch of salt. But this worries me - how do you introduce new racers without the opportunity to crew? It's not easy to do the race craft bit for the first time on your own no matter how experienced a sailor you are. I think if I were Hunts and other clubs I'd be thinking really hard about how to encourage doublehanders.