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Fair Play?
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fair Play?
    Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:07am
Here's a question for you.

Another yardstick issue, two single handers without a formal handicap, which do you thinks is fairer?

Mike Lyons in a light Blaze (the Fire) with racks and a small sail at 1065, or *16 year old Genna Gibson with her Raceboard 8.5 given 700? (She beat him by a considerable margin).

If you're a windsurfer I can assure you, it's a black day for your pathetic system.

Especially since the IOSSC are quite happy to take their entry fee and start them as slow handicap.

In the event she must have been the youngest helm and certainly the first female round, see if you can spot her in their results.

Edited by iGRF - 01 Sep 14 at 10:08am
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:11am
You can't meaningfully race 'boards (or foilers) against dinghies on PY. Most clubs discovered that long ago, although I can imagine that in east Kent it might be taking longer.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

You can't meaningfully race 'boards (or foilers) against dinghies on PY. Most clubs discovered that long ago, although I can imagine that in east Kent it might be taking longer.


Then don't take their money and enter them in a handicap event, you do talk bollox sometimes for someone who allegedly know what he's doing, a race board is no different than a Musto Skiff, Contender or any other trap hull that goes faster if its windy and can be raced quite successfully together especially over distance we do it all the time.
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:20am
I agree with MM - AIUI Round Hayling and Round Mersea are now run as separate events for boards and dinghies.

I also agree with the sentiment of Graeme's opening post, rating a board at 700 is a total joke, clearly intended to 'not upset the apple cart'.  Who'd have thought, that by 2014, we'd still have people in positions of control within the sport who'd find it embarrassing (and not acceptable) to be beaten by a 16 year old young woman?  

Hell, in nearly every other sport I've ever followed, be beaten by youngsters is seen as wholly positive and totally natural... it shows the sport is moving forward and that a legacy has been left by outgoing generation for a new generation to enjoy and one day pass down.

It sucks....
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:23am
For once there's something in what you say about the problems of racing trap and non trap dinghies together on PY. The outcome is often all too predictable according to the weather.

But the difference between trap and non-trap dinghies is as nothing compared to the contrast between a board and a dinghy. Most clubs realised this by the '90's if not sooner.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:31am
It depends how well the board is sailed, you have muppets in dinghies that frankly shouldn't be anywhere near a start line, we have muppets on boards, back in the day there were lots. But this girl is a good helm in both and needs encouraging, not dismissing to 61st.
I've a mind to ring the bloody Daily Mail, get them gee'd up about the whole mess you've got with your stupid handicap system, call the RYA into doubt over it, it'll make a great tale, perhaps shake that moribund PYAG into action. They encourage clubs to make handicap decisions, this is one of them.

And 1065 for a Blaze? Come on, who let him get away with that, and a special light one I'm surprised he can look fellow competitors in the eye and keep a straight face.

Edited by iGRF - 01 Sep 14 at 9:32am
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:31am
It's to do with the planing threshold and speed difference between the two modes.  It's windsurfing's achilles heel - racing dinghies is just a nugget of that - a lot of windsurfers won't sail unless it's planing winds, and in turn, only buy kit that can be properly used in planing conditions.  Great if you live somewhere windy, or have a lot of free time and a van full of free fuel, but totally restrictive as a weekend pastime.  

I'm very much in the minority for having kit that transcends into displacement sailing, and Graeme and a couple of other guys I know (and respect) are considered 'dinosaurs' in some quarters for even maintaining an interest in this area.... I wouldn't be without it though, it's slowly becoming the best board or boat I've ever owned.  And all those other guys buying 'super light wind planing' boards are the mugs.... most of those boards won't get going in less than 14 knots, and that's with a lot of good technique and some generous poetic licence in their marketing collateral.  
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Posts: 714 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:35am
We've got a techno entered for Bart's Bash. It will be interesting to see how the handicapping works out for that.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:35am
Nothing to do with the yardstick system at all. Its a race management decision made by one club.
I have no idea what factors influenced the club to give them that number, but provided it was fully communicated before the day I suppose it could be said its better than banning them from entering at all, but yes, personally I would have been more comfortable giving them a separate series than scoring them in the main fleet with a handicap that doesn't appear to reflect performance. But is it possible that in optimum conditions that board does sail to that sort of handicap?
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Posts: 714 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:37am
Are any dinghies handicapped for optimum conditions, or an average from across the range?
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