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More weird sailing science Igrf style..

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iGRF View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 May 14 at 10:54am
So, in my constant quest to seek ideas that would make vertically prejudiced yet strangely handsome helms perform adequately despite the passage of years, I put a suggestion to a fellow traveller in my office the other day, and it seems it's already been adopted, or may yet be taken up by no less than the AC team.

The suggestion was the effect a decent sized gyroscope might have to combat heeling, which is of course the lightweights nemesis.

So I was pleasantly surprised to learn that not only was it in consideration but, if I have gotten the right end of the stick, using regenerative power apparently the F1 lot are considering a system that if permitted by the rules, they'll use eventually to do away with the grinding to control the various systems.

All very futuristic stuff, but if this flywheel system also works like a gyroscope it can allegedly reduce say a 15 degree heel to as little as 4 if my source is correct.

Now if this is going on, there must have been some previous experience, I can't believe it has only just come about, so the question is has anyone seen or heard of it, and could it be used at our level?

An interesting development I thought.
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ellistine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 14 at 11:16am
I think for a while one of the Oracle AC45's sported a bulge at the bottom of it's wing mast that was reputed to contain some sort of Giro. Williams F1 did also develop a spinning flywheel for storing power. They never used it in F1 although I think Porsche adopted it as did some bus companies!




Edited by ellistine - 23 May 14 at 11:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cameron Winton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 14 at 11:54am
Renault had a "Mass damper" for a while until it got banned. Basically a weight on a rod that used inertia to help control pitch
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Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 14 at 12:04pm
An experiment to try to show the forces - spin a bike wheel up, ( removed from a bike ) holding either side of the axle, then let go of one side - it stays up!
And now turn your body to the side - oh dear - it resists the turning, but goes all weird and leans over. a more extreme version : here's some 'antigravity' from Eric Laithwaite  http://youtu.be/MHlAJ7vySC8

http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk
Andy P
foiling Int Moth GBR3467
Freedom 21 Codling
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 14 at 12:08pm
There are ships that use anti-roll gyros.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SNJ88mBusbE
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 14 at 12:41pm
Ah, Prof Laithwaite and his gyros. No way you'd be allowed to do that stuff now. Remember stories of the college safety officer turning white when the Prof mentioned they'd done the sums and if he dropped the thing it would probably go through the wall of the lecture theatre because there was so much stored energy.
Also remember the head to head between him and one of the Physics Department people after one of his demos. There was always a bit of a gap between the engineers and the pure scientists at IC in my day...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 14 at 2:38pm
So the next question is how heavy or how much mass would a wheel have to be at the base of the mast, to prevent say the new D zero from heeling and thereby doing away with all that hiking nonsense?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 14 at 2:44pm
Very heavy or rotating very quickly. It would also make changing course rather interesting... I don't think I'm even capable of working out what the effects of the heeling force will be in terms of precession - certainly not without a considerable amount of study.

Edited by JimC - 23 May 14 at 2:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Punky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 14 at 3:08pm
Stick four powerballs down each side and try it!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 14 at 3:26pm
I don't see changing course in the horizontal plane should present any problem, obviously keeping the thing spinning and carrying the extra weight would probably negate the advantage, unless of course it was compensated for by extra sail area which is what the lightweight needs to be able to carry but can't.

It would also prevent for and aft pitching.

The ideal counter measure for spinnakers lifting the nose.
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