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How Does the Minisail Sail?

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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How Does the Minisail Sail?
    Posted: 02 May 14 at 1:20pm
I nearly simply pm'd Rupert with this question, but thought I'd throw it open in case there are any Minisailers from the old days out there.

Does the Minisail sail at its fastest if sailed flat like a Laser, or heeled like a scow?

Would your answer be different for beating and for reaching/running?

Any ideas as to why?  e.g. would the use of larger/better foils change your answer?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cad99uk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 14 at 1:31pm
Are there any clues in how the Topper is sailed competitively?
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GarethT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 14 at 1:34pm
When I had one (nearly 30 years ago) it was quicker flat, but very hard to hike without dragging your bum through the water when in was flat.
 
Never sailed one with a sliding seat so don't know how that changed it, but upwind was really hard work.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 14 at 1:40pm
There are 2 different Minisail hulls, and the answer is slightly different for each of them!

My GRP boat, the Monaco version, can be sailed much like a Laser or Topper - maybe you'd bring it flat a little later up the wind scale to keep the chine in the water for a little longer to aid the centreboard, but it seems to sail best pretty much the same as other boats with slightly curved bottoms.

The Wooden Sprite is a little different. Not only is it truly flat bottomed (the Monaco has a V section forwards) but it is even slightly concave up near the bows. I tend to keep the boat heeled all the time upwind. I suspect once it is planing weather offwind, flat would be faster upwind, but by that point I'm heeled anyway...

This only applies upwind for either boat. Reaching and running, I'd sail it like a Laser, so only heeled when wanting to reduce wetted surface in the light, and heeled to windward downwind till it gets too twitchy, which as normal would depend on crew skill.

The heel does increase the waterline length in a scow bowed boat, but in the Minisail, I suspect the reduced efficiency of an already poor rig would outweigh this.

Would larger/better foils change the sailing style? I think the Monaco would be sailed more upright sooner, that's for sure. The Sprite? I have put a slightly larger centreboard in, but still very slim because of the case size, but I can't say I've noticed much difference. I think I'd need to do testing against a similar boat with similar helming standard to actually start to know.

The angles of heel we are talking about are small compared to the twin centreboarded Lake Scows in the USA, I think, but then the set up of the boat is far more like a normal small dinghy than they are, with the angled boards and huge sail area.

Hope this helps?
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 14 at 2:13pm
Many thanks for those replies.

In conclusion then, the Monaco is pretty much like a 'normal' dinghy, but a Sprite some way towards a scow.  

The tunnel-hull scow Moths were certainly sailed heeled, at least upwind, despite only having a centreboard, which was why I thought that use of a longer 'board might influence things. Of course, if your hull will tolerate heel without increasing the drag, you can use the extra righting moment obtained as the centre of buoyancy moves to leeward to carry more sail area.

Watching some of our lot in a Streaker, Laser and Alto sailing to windward the other day in a gusty wind, I noticed they were all averaging 20 degrees of heel anyway.  They clearly needed scows!

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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 14 at 2:30pm
The rounded bow and long chine does influence the way the boat is sailed in both balance and trim. In waves, sailing the boat heeled will help reduce the pounding, for instance. I'm not sure that I have really come fully to terms with how the boat goes best in various conditions.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 14 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Watching some of our lot in a Streaker, Laser and Alto sailing to windward the other day in a gusty wind, I noticed they were all averaging 20 degrees of heel anyway.  They clearly needed scows!


tbh I also think the Alto works better heeled, no proof of it since I've only ever come across another Alto once on the round island race and then we broke our boom just as I was closing, but it feels like it works better heeled than flat.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 14 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by iGRF

tbh I also think the Alto works better heeled, no proof of it since I've only ever come across another Alto once on the round island race and then we broke our boom just as I was closing, but it feels like it works better heeled than flat.

Our local guys seem to go well sailing flat.  You need to come up and have a sail with them.  Medway Dinghy Regatta on 12/13 July should see a good turnout of Altos if last year is anything to go by, when they cleaned up in the Fast H'cap:

Rupert - you need a fleet of Minisails to race against (as if you didn't wish for that already)
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 14 at 3:55pm
Nationals are at Whitefriars on the 1st weekend of July - plenty of boats around to borrow (most owners seem to have a spare!) or they are very cheap on ebay, or free from the hedge at the  back of the boat park. R&J or Morgan sails can do you a new sail for only a bit over £200 if you don't like the bag they usually come with!

Will be doing some coaching on the Saturday, so if we have some wind, could maybe test out what effect heel has.

Actually, I have a fleet of Lightnings to race against, so the Minisail is more of a toy to mess around with and a simple boat to take to classics events if I can ever manage to.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 14 at 8:16pm
Do you have one with a sliding seat?

I remember as a scrawny teenager absolutely flying off the wind, but upwind seeming disproportionately slow and hard work. Does the seat make upwind better?
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