Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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New dinghy handicap with lap |
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Dches ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 29 Apr 14 Location: Croydon Online Status: Offline Posts: 37 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 29 Apr 14 at 8:11pm |
I have come up with a new dinghy handicap formula is it fair that a boat does a lap less.
Formula for calculating handicaps even if slower boats do a lap less with correction for boat doing a lap less CHT= corrected handicap time AT= actual time in seconds ADJ.PY=boats handicap NLC=number of laps boat has completed NF= most number of laps done by any boat during the race. CHT=((((1000*AT)/ADJ.PY)/NLC)*NF)/(NLC/NF) boat 1 using the formula for mirror doing 5 laps in a race where faster boats do 6 laps my formula CHT=((((1000*1500)/1385)/5)*6)/(5/6) = 1559.567 old formula CHT=((((1000*1500)/1385)/5)*6)=1299.639 Boat 2 using the formula for a laser doing 6 laps in a race where slower boats do 5 laps my formula CHT=((((1000*1695)/1087)/6)* 6)/(6/6) = 1559.338 old formula CHT=((((1000*1695)/1087)/6)*6) = 1559.338 boat 2 wins which is fairer as they did more laps but only just which means handicaps still play a part in the race |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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I don't know if i'm being dim, but I don't understand what thr problem is that you are trying to solve. Seems to be a formula that ensures that lapped slower boats place bbadly. Why?
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craiggo ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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![]() Totally agree Jim, seems to me like someone doesnt like being beaten by slower boats that complete less laps??? |
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Ian99 ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 07 Apr 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 138 |
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No you're not being dim.
A Mirror which does 5 laps in 1500 seconds is taking 300 seconds per lap. It is therefore reasonable to expect that if it was allowed to do another lap (i.e. sail the same distance as the Laser) this would also take around 300 seconds, giving a total race time of 1800 seconds. If the Laser has taken 1695 seconds to do this same distance (i.e. less than two minutes faster), it should be beaten by miles on handicap by the Mirror which is a much slower boat. Working backwards through the "improved" formula would give an estimated time for the Mirror to compete the same distance as the laser of 2160 seconds, which implies that the sixth lap would take nearly twice as long as all the previous ones. Unless the Mirror capsizes, this would be extremely unlikely. One correction factor which can make average lap calculation fairer is to use the ratio of times between laps for the boats which did more laps as the multiplier for the slow boats, instead of the fixed ratio of distances. This helps to compensate for changes in conditions. A typical example would be an evening race where the fastest boats end up doing their extra lap in much less wind than the slower boats. Say the Laser does lap 1 in 20 mins, lap 2 in 20 mins and lap 3 in 40 mins because the wind drops really badly after about 50 mins of racing. If the Mirror did lap 1 in 25 mins and lap 2 in 26 mins, and then finished just as the wind dropped, it would beat the Laser by miles if it was averaged up by distance sailed. If the Mirror had carried on for three laps, it's likely that its last lap would also have taken twice as long so this method can counteract for this. It does need quite a bit of 'manual input' and a reasonably large sample of boats though to ensure that boats which capsized, or otherwise changed speed for reasons other than the conditions changing can be excluded when working out the ratio of lap times though. |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Still don't get the point. Milledge, who designed the PY system some 50 years ago, used to describe the PY as being the time taken for each boat to sail a constant but inspecified distance. So if our Mirror is completeing laps in 1385 secs its dead level with a Laser completing laps in 1087 secs. So a Mirror that does 3 1385 sec laps - 4155, dead geats a Laser that does 4 1087 laps - 4328 is that mental arithmetic not being my strong point this time of day. I always find it, BTW, much easier to get things straight in my head if I think about boats that should dead heat, not who beats who.
So it doesn't matter how many 1385 sec laps the Mirror does, or 1087 ones the laser does, they continue to dead heat. Next race the wind has got up and mirror does two laps in 1385 secs, laser 2 in 1087 they continue to dead heat. |
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Dches ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 29 Apr 14 Location: Croydon Online Status: Offline Posts: 37 |
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Is it fairer that a boat does less laps?
What if you wanted to finish some laser on 5 laps where some where doing 6 you can't cause of handicap and times this formula resolves that situation. What I have done is make sailing have a fairer playing field. At my club if all boats did same number of laps different results would of taken place. If you actually look at my formula handicaps still play a part but the correct is dependent on number of laps sailed makes it fairer |
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Dches ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 29 Apr 14 Location: Croydon Online Status: Offline Posts: 37 |
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What can happen is the mirror does a lap less wind starts dying laser has no chance of winning but if mirror sailed that lap it might have been beaten by laser.
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Now your point about extra laps. The thing that stuffs up handicap racing in variable conditions above all else is long laps. Ideally all laps should be short enough so all boats start and finish together - clearly impossible, but if the slow boats aren't doing 4 or 5 laps in varying conditions anomalies are inevitable.
But I still don't see what your formula does that's useful. I suggest you work through it again, using the two boats that should dead heat concept, and factor in both increasing and decreasing last lap breeze to give yourself a full picture of what goes on. |
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Dches ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 29 Apr 14 Location: Croydon Online Status: Offline Posts: 37 |
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In all honesty the PY was developed with all boats doing same number of laps which at most clubs isn't the case. My formula just corrects the difference in number of laps sailed to make it a fairer race the py still applies. Use it on your handicap races where boats for different laps and see the difference
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Yes, of course. The number of laps a boat completes is a function of how quick the class is, not how good the sailor is. Part of he art of good race management in a series with varying winds is to juggle your S flags so that different classes finish first each week, and different classes get to finish late each week. On evening races we have our start times juggled so the most numerous classes all tend to cross the finish line together. |
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