New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Reducing Sail Size
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Reducing Sail Size

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 8>
Author
MattHarris View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 03 Oct 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 94
Post Options Post Options   Quote MattHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Reducing Sail Size
    Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 1:50pm
An interesting point brought up at the weekend has had me thinking.

We've been having a lot of big winds over the winter series which has had an affect on the number of boats turning out.  It was suggested that maybe we could suggest to people to put on smaller sails allowing people to race in bigger winds without spending most of the time in the water.  I know that some teams sailing Enterprises/GP's often put up "cruising sails" in the 24 hour race when the wind picks up and Streakers have introduced an official smaller sail but is this then a new class?
 
For our racing I wouldn't change the PY's so there would be no change to calculations but I was wondering if any other clubs have rules in place for smaller sails and if they have any issues?
Phantom 1175 - Alice

http://www.thelostpenguin.co.uk
Back to Top
getafix View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2143
Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 1:59pm
If you can keep it 'common sense' (i.e. out of the protest room) then why not allow people to sail with smaller sails, at the same PY, during a series?  OK, if people start asking for adjusted PYs or course changes then that changes the game too much.  Anything that gets more people out sailing is good news.  Working a discount on winter gear with a local chandler may help too!!
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 2:10pm
In most none SMOD classes there are just maximums for sail measurements so a reduced size sail is completely in accordance with class rules and there can be no possible objection if they race off the standard handicap - provided at least there's nothing in class rules about how many sails you can buy or something. In the days before modern gust responsive rigs it was quite common for International Moths to use small sails in big winds.

The big problem is, as I discovered when I built a stumping rig for my one off singlehander, is that you lose so much performance off wind with a small sail that if you can possibly somehow hang on to the big rig up to the windward mark then you will be much better off downwind. However we have at least one Solo at our club which has a small sail for when its windy, and although it isn't very competitive like that, it enables a mature gentleman to sail in winds where the rest of his age group are sitting on the beach, which seems like a good thing to me.

Where you might have a problem is if classes turn into multiple rig boats where they have different rigs for different wind strengths and then the cost of owning a boat goes up. That doesn't seem healthy to me. Because of the offwind performance issue I think multiple rigs are a bigger potential issue for two handed boats unless the boats are handicapped for the different rigs: rather defeats the point of having a Laser if you pick between Rooster 8.1, standard radial and 4.7 rigs according to wind strength and so everyone has to buy all of them and the sailor wants the club to give him the "all weather" handicap when he's only using each rig in its optimum conditions.

Edited by JimC - 04 Feb 14 at 2:13pm
Back to Top
yellowwelly View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2003
Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 2:21pm
I agree with both points above- which is where the RS100 could have been so unique...

simply add more or less white sail depending on the conditions - there were three to choose from, without being compromised off wind.  And yes, one class, one PY, one group of sailors and one brand identity.

Sadly the class voted with its entrenched dinghy sailing SMOD mentality feet and the class have effectively split in two, casting the smallest rig into racing oblivion... to the point where no matter how hard you look, you can't really see that many sailing anymore.

What is it, two in the SJ series this year???

Anyway, yes, reduce sail size when it's windy.  It's pretty bloody obvious really isn't it?  


Edited by yellowwelly - 04 Feb 14 at 2:22pm
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 2:38pm
The trouble with "pick the rig for the wind", as pretty much any experienced 18 sailor would admit if pressed, is that its a right pain in the neck. Pick the wrong rig and you're toast, which also means that rigging the boat has to be left until its a last minute panic in case the wind changes.
Back to Top
MattHarris View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 03 Oct 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 94
Post Options Post Options   Quote MattHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 2:51pm
I don't think anyone's going to get too upset.  Its just the way we work results is that we treat different rigs as a different class completely.  This would obviously change that slightly but i think as long as we use the lowest PY from the rigs they use across the board (e.g. use 1085 for a laser even if they reduce to a radial for one or two heavy weather races) i can't see it being an issue. 
My convern was more for any unexpected loop holes that may cause time in a protest room that i wanted to avoid.  As has been said before its all about getting as many people out enjoying themselves racing not being held back by technicalities.  I'm sure other clubs notice but after a few heavy weather weeks fleets tend to shrink and take a week or two to come back to where they were. 
 
I suppose for the above mentioned Laser rig swapping if you allowed them to use any rig but always used the PY of a 8.1 would other racers object? And equally would anyone be tempted to try it? 


Edited by MattHarris - 04 Feb 14 at 2:52pm
Phantom 1175 - Alice

http://www.thelostpenguin.co.uk
Back to Top
iitick View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 09 Sep 13
Location: Tunstead Milton
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 392
Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 3:09pm
At our windy (sometimes) but gusty (always) club people have tried small sails on Supernova and Lightning. They look like a good idea at the time but when actually racing they are never fast because of varying wind speeds. What does seem to work were flat cut sails on Phantoms.

Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 3:33pm
The Lightning now has the option of a small rig, complete with shorter lower mast. One has been racing regularly on the circuit, with no handicapping, and on the breezy days has allowed the lightweight helm to compete near the front of the fleet. The idea isn't to "do a Laser Radial" and produced what is effectively a different class, but to allow very light people to compete. But you do have to choose the rig for the whole event at the beginning.

I have no idea how many of these rigs are being used at clubs for handicap racing, whether regularly by small people, or as a cut down rig in a blow for the medium sized.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 3:38pm
Well to my mind it is entirely logical and a total mystery as to why it hasn't happened until now.

Eventually my EPS will be equipped with 3 sails.
Back to Top
Telltale View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 03 May 12
Location: Cardiff
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 169
Post Options Post Options   Quote Telltale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 3:45pm
Please remember not to put them all on at once !!  Embarrassed
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 8>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy