Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Reducing Sail Size |
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MattHarris ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 94 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 1:50pm |
An interesting point brought up at the weekend has had me thinking.
We've been having a lot of big winds over the winter series which has had an affect on the number of boats turning out. It was suggested that maybe we could suggest to people to put on smaller sails allowing people to race in bigger winds without spending most of the time in the water. I know that some teams sailing Enterprises/GP's often put up "cruising sails" in the 24 hour race when the wind picks up and Streakers have introduced an official smaller sail but is this then a new class? For our racing I wouldn't change the PY's so there would be no change to calculations but I was wondering if any other clubs have rules in place for smaller sails and if they have any issues?
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getafix ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Mar 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2143 |
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If you can keep it 'common sense' (i.e. out of the protest room) then why not allow people to sail with smaller sails, at the same PY, during a series? OK, if people start asking for adjusted PYs or course changes then that changes the game too much. Anything that gets more people out sailing is good news. Working a discount on winter gear with a local chandler may help too!!
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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In most none SMOD classes there are just maximums for sail measurements so a reduced size sail is completely in accordance with class rules and there can be no possible objection if they race off the standard handicap - provided at least there's nothing in class rules about how many sails you can buy or something. In the days before modern gust responsive rigs it was quite common for International Moths to use small sails in big winds.
The big problem is, as I discovered when I built a stumping rig for my one off singlehander, is that you lose so much performance off wind with a small sail that if you can possibly somehow hang on to the big rig up to the windward mark then you will be much better off downwind. However we have at least one Solo at our club which has a small sail for when its windy, and although it isn't very competitive like that, it enables a mature gentleman to sail in winds where the rest of his age group are sitting on the beach, which seems like a good thing to me. Where you might have a problem is if classes turn into multiple rig boats where they have different rigs for different wind strengths and then the cost of owning a boat goes up. That doesn't seem healthy to me. Because of the offwind performance issue I think multiple rigs are a bigger potential issue for two handed boats unless the boats are handicapped for the different rigs: rather defeats the point of having a Laser if you pick between Rooster 8.1, standard radial and 4.7 rigs according to wind strength and so everyone has to buy all of them and the sailor wants the club to give him the "all weather" handicap when he's only using each rig in its optimum conditions. Edited by JimC - 04 Feb 14 at 2:13pm |
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yellowwelly ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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I agree with both points above- which is where the RS100 could have been so unique...
simply add more or less white sail depending on the conditions - there were three to choose from, without being compromised off wind. And yes, one class, one PY, one group of sailors and one brand identity. Sadly the class voted with its entrenched dinghy sailing SMOD mentality feet and the class have effectively split in two, casting the smallest rig into racing oblivion... to the point where no matter how hard you look, you can't really see that many sailing anymore. What is it, two in the SJ series this year??? Anyway, yes, reduce sail size when it's windy. It's pretty bloody obvious really isn't it?
Edited by yellowwelly - 04 Feb 14 at 2:22pm |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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The trouble with "pick the rig for the wind", as pretty much any experienced 18 sailor would admit if pressed, is that its a right pain in the neck. Pick the wrong rig and you're toast, which also means that rigging the boat has to be left until its a last minute panic in case the wind changes.
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MattHarris ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 94 |
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I don't think anyone's going to get too upset. Its just the way we work results is that we treat different rigs as a different class completely. This would obviously change that slightly but i think as long as we use the lowest PY from the rigs they use across the board (e.g. use 1085 for a laser even if they reduce to a radial for one or two heavy weather races) i can't see it being an issue.
My convern was more for any unexpected loop holes that may cause time in a protest room that i wanted to avoid. As has been said before its all about getting as many people out enjoying themselves racing not being held back by technicalities. I'm sure other clubs notice but after a few heavy weather weeks fleets tend to shrink and take a week or two to come back to where they were. I suppose for the above mentioned Laser rig swapping if you allowed them to use any rig but always used the PY of a 8.1 would other racers object? And equally would anyone be tempted to try it?
Edited by MattHarris - 04 Feb 14 at 2:52pm |
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iitick ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 09 Sep 13 Location: Tunstead Milton Online Status: Offline Posts: 392 |
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At our windy (sometimes) but gusty (always) club people have tried small sails on Supernova and Lightning. They look like a good idea at the time but when actually racing they are never fast because of varying wind speeds. What does seem to work were flat cut sails on Phantoms.
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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The Lightning now has the option of a small rig, complete with shorter lower mast. One has been racing regularly on the circuit, with no handicapping, and on the breezy days has allowed the lightweight helm to compete near the front of the fleet. The idea isn't to "do a Laser Radial" and produced what is effectively a different class, but to allow very light people to compete. But you do have to choose the rig for the whole event at the beginning.
I have no idea how many of these rigs are being used at clubs for handicap racing, whether regularly by small people, or as a cut down rig in a blow for the medium sized. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Well to my mind it is entirely logical and a total mystery as to why it hasn't happened until now.
Eventually my EPS will be equipped with 3 sails. |
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Telltale ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 03 May 12 Location: Cardiff Online Status: Offline Posts: 169 |
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Please remember not to put them all on at once !!
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