Mark rounding room, no wind

   If you are trying to drift out of the way of a boat who you are not quite overlapped with on a mark in almost no wind, with other boats outside, also moving at extreme slow speeds, and the boat with rights at the mark not only stops dead, but even drifts backwards into you as you are trying to get round their stern to not be inside them, who is in the wrong?

I ended up doing turns, but surely I cannot be expected to manage to avoid a boat drifting backwards into me? We just seemed to be sucked together.

And what am I allowed to do to avoid such a collision?

The non rules answer is "don't be there in the 1st place"...

Not the best weather for an Open...

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Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Mark rounding room, no wind Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 9:29am
	If you are trying to drift out of the way of a boat who you are not quite overlapped with on a mark in almost no wind, with other boats outside, also moving at extreme slow speeds, and the boat with rights at the mark not only stops dead, but even drifts backwards into you as you are trying to get round their stern to not be inside them, who is in the wrong? I ended up doing turns, but surely I cannot be expected to manage to avoid a boat drifting backwards into me? We just seemed to be sucked together. And what am I allowed to do to avoid such a collision? The non rules answer is "don't be there in the 1st place"... Not the best weather for an Open...
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

jeffers Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048	Post Options Post Reply Quote jeffers Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 9:39am
	In theory the boat going backwards has to give way to everything.....
	Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 9:49am
	If the boat was moving astern by backing a sail, even inadvertently, then she needed to keep clear of you (R22).

GML Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 24 Jul 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 94	Post Options Post Reply Quote GML Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 10:22am
	Rule 22.3 only applies if the boat moving backwards through the water is doing so as a result of backing a sail (whether deliberately or accidentally). If she is simply drifting backwards then the rule doesn't apply. However, if she was moving forwards through the water and is now moving backwards through the water then I think that constitutes a change of course for the purposes of rule 16. Furthermore, if by sailing backwards though the water she was sailing away from the mark rather than towards it I don't think she would be sailing within the mark-room to which she was entitled under rule 18. Consequently I don't she would be entitled to exoneration under rule 21. So in summary, it is possible that she broke rule 16 by not giving you room to keep clear.

gordon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037	Post Options Post Reply Quote gordon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 11:12am
	Mark-room is the space a boat needs in the existing conditions to leave a mark on the required side while manoeuvring promptly in a seamanlke manner (the definition of mark-room integrates the definition of room). In this case it would seem that the boat at the mark was becalmed. There is little she could do, in a seamanlike manner, to continue sailing to the mark. A becalmed boat may drift but I do not see how she can move astern as a result of backing a sail. In this case I believe that the boat at the mark was doing what she could to round the mark, and so benefits from the exoneration under rule 21 for any change of course and possibly breaking rule 16. On the other hand, if she did change course, you had no room, in the existing conditions to either keep clear (almost overlapped = clear astern!) or give mark room. So, unless there was damage (which seems unlikely), which may change how the PC applies rule 14, you could be exonerated under rule 64.1a as a consequence of the boat at the mark breaking rule 16. In fact the most likely scenario is that the boat at the mark says sorry and you can sail on. There are times when judges decide to look the other way - otherwise, for instance, most Oppie fleets would all be disqualified at every start!
	Gordon