The latest 'project'

So, further to the shenanigans over on the Icon thread, I'm about to embark on another not exactly tame goose project, however, this time, it's a little more conventional and may or may not strike a chord with something some of you might or might not like the idea of.

So the position to date I've struck the bones of a deal with the folks from Cirrus and White Formula to let me abuse the bottom half of an Icon in order that I can end up with a two hander with a kite, maybe a trapeze and maybe some method of "SymAssying" to quote a wag on the Icon thread, but a universal kite system that could be fashioned either way if that could be possible and that basically is the first thing I'd like to discuss.

I don't know much about Symmettric kites other than they look knaff and old fashioned and appear to me to act on the top half of the mast with greater potential to invert the mast/drive the boat down the mine, than even Assyms, but that might just be me, they do however appear to be smaller generally, monster 5oh's excepted.

So the question is, has it been done before, did I read that RS200 ran their kites with a jib pole, was it like the Icon dangle pole? Why did the 200's drop their system, was it because it was more efficient than running Assym so negated the downwind tactics that assym sailing brings?

Is it a stupid hair brained idea having both options? To me it seems logical that if one system works better on hot reaches then the other works better for soaking dead run conditions, then why not have both at your command, it might be a bit more efficient than the jolly old swinging pole I've enjoyed with the Alto but does suffer with quirky going wrong things more often than not in my boat (It's been re fashioned so many times).

I know there is something called an MG14, so the hull has been successfully Assym kited, so making that work shouldn't be a problem, but what do y'all think about the other idea?

Edited by iGRF - 04 Nov 13 at 2:24pm

Apologies, but I've only skim-read the other thread and may be going over old ground, but why do you want to do this? Was it to make a boat that you could race effectively both on the oggin and the pond?

Some years back, when I decided to take up cycling again I went out a bought a hybrid. Great initially, as I thought I was getting the best of both worlds, but after a while I realised that it was neither fast enough on the road for what I wanted not capably of dealing with the rough/muddy stuff when off the beaten track. I ended up selling it to help fund the purchase of a decent road bike and a decent MTB. Now I've got the right tool for each job.

First, it's no good talking to me about lead mine stuff, I've very little experience of them, other than blue water cruising and pondering on having them fitted with 'cookers' (hookers who can cook) for birthday celebrations.

So don't know what an 'A' series of kites is, my original plan was to try and design a multi option kite, I had it in my head that it could have two 'foots' and instead of gybing like a regular assym, you just pull the foot across to be the new clew and it be double leading edged, then as you would have to have a continuous rope between both clew/feet, it could have a dangle pole attached should needs must on a run, that was my first thought.

However it was pointed out it would be a compromise by the young sailmaker guy Neal Gibson and he suggested the idea of just having two, one permanently fitted to the front pole and the other stored in a back bag Miracle style and you simply select which one you want for the job at hand. Which would be more the Assym on the sea, and likely the Sym on the lake, you could switch between each but you'd have to be very sure of which rope to pull and I have to say as we currently stand I couldn't guarantee we'd pull the right rope, so I'm more leaning toward the compromise 'SymAssy' kite with two feet idea.

Hi Greame
 
I had one of the very early 200's with the 'dual' system ... it was a long time ago now but can run through that system for you  ... if you want.  It is something you could rig up later if your basic asymetric concept needed an extra trick up its sleeve.  

That boat, the 200,  was very often faster offwind effectively 'goose-winging' the spinnaker and for quite a lot of the time .. ie better VMG but then the NS/MG/Icon basis of your project will be much faster for much more of the time with bog standard asymetric set-up.   I'd always go for KISS at least at first .. but if it is not the dogs whatsits for you you could add that facility later.   

Mike L.

PS - I cannot keep calling it 'your project' or an NS/MG/Icon hybrid .. has it got a name yet ?  

Originally posted by Noah You'll have to draw the SymAssy for me Graeme, 'cos I just can't picture it.

Imagine a conventional Assy, with a line from the tack to the clew running through a pulley block on the end of the normal pole, then on the gybe instead of pulling the clew through and turning the kite over so to speak, you just let go the clew sheet and have the other sheet attached to the foot, the foot then becomes the new clew and the old clew becomes the foot. The trailing edge becomes the leading edge and vice versa.

So that's it working 'assy' style, but if you want to run, you engage a dangle pole in the clew that's about to be a foot, allow some slack to the centre line between the two and the clew doesn't go all the way to the foot and it's square rigged. Simples (At least it seems simple to my mind, I haven't done it yet there must be something I've missed or someone would have done it already.)

Edited by iGRF - 04 Nov 13 at 3:48pm