Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
![]() |
Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
![]() |
Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
![]() |
List classes of boat for sale |
Raking Rigs |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page 123 4> |
Author | |
boatshed ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 457 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 02 Nov 13 at 8:23am |
This from the R Speculation topic
How does raking a rig back a little bit de power it ? |
|
Steve
|
|
![]() |
|
Mister Nick ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Aug 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 389 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=103845
There's some pretty good information on there. The general consensus seems to be that it reduces weather helm, lowers the centre of effort and helps to flatten the sail. Most people seem pretty uncertain about the actual physics of it though.
|
|
![]() |
|
Dark Harris ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 16 Jul 13 Location: Gloucestershire Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Ok here's my twopence worth...Lowering the CofE on whole rig is not due to the mast being lower its due to the power in the sail being lower, the shrouds are slacker the top of the leach leans to leeward with boat still upright power is lost high in the rig, hey presto even a short a... like me can keep it upright. To match the rig going back then raising centreboard/daggerboard a little will offset any weather helm you may induce due to CofE moving back but often the loss of power up the rig will be enough.
|
|
When they say you are too old you probably are, but do it anyway.
|
|
![]() |
|
Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
But raking the rig back works even when you keep the rig tension on, so it can't just be losing power because of slack shrouds.
It works for boats with jibs, and those without, and really I've never seen a convincing argument for it that hasn't been shot down by others, with their own slightly unconvincing argument. Best I've come up with is "its complicated, I don't understand it, but it works". |
|
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
|
|
![]() |
|
Dark Harris ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 16 Jul 13 Location: Gloucestershire Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Good point well made, but the boats that leave rig tension on have a jib, different rules, as you now open slot. Single handers without jib slacken the rig. Don't know of a single hander that is able to rake rig and keep tension on. You are right that it is subjective but it definately works or I would be in the bar more often.
|
|
When they say you are too old you probably are, but do it anyway.
|
|
![]() |
|
Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Does the Contender keep the rig tension on? They are the classic raking rig singlehander. I've always assumed it did, because of the trapeze, but have never studied the boat.
|
|
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
|
|
![]() |
|
Dark Harris ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 16 Jul 13 Location: Gloucestershire Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Don't think they do although, obviously, the trapeze is going to give some support.
|
|
When they say you are too old you probably are, but do it anyway.
|
|
![]() |
|
andymck ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Raking the rig has multiple effects. From increasing mast bend in the majority of boats to opening the slot, allowing the top of the main to blade off etc. many of these can be achieved in isolation, but as you do you drag the centre of effort forward. In the majority of boats we sail this leads to a very lurching response to gusts which is inefficient, and requires more rudder corrections.
Raking the rig allows the boat to come back into balance. It will also increase other benefits such as opening the slot more. Next time you go out in a breeze, if you have the ability to rake, de power as much as you can by pulling the usual controls. Then sail up wind and adjust the rake till you feel comfortable. Then adjust the centre board, and see if you need to adjust again, on single handers with stayed rigs it has a big effect. On two sailed boats also pay a lot of attention to the slot. If you get into that main flogging situation, and others arn't or you want to be first to regain control, ease the jib, and flow will be restored. This is a good indicator to either go for more rake or move jib cars back. This fine tuning is effectively what the good guys are doing when they are doing that practice beat, as well as keeping an eye on winds shifts. Last thing to remember is if the wind strength changes, re adjust everything. You will then end up sailing the boat rather than fighting it. Rig tension depends on the boat and rig. You can induce a lot of mast bend further up by keeping it on, but some rigs need less, as it allows more lateral bend at the top. Andy (wish I was fit enough to do that practice beat. Am one of those who drops off after first lap against the top guys looking a bit too red) Edited by andymck - 02 Nov 13 at 11:47am |
|
Andy Mck
|
|
![]() |
|
rb_stretch ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 23 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 742 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I've often wondered about what the precise effects are and I'm sure that they vary boat by boat.
The phantom is an interesting case in that raking the rig is the single biggest thing you can do to de power, however that could be as much the other effects it creates rather than the rake on its own, all other things being equal. As mentioned in the other thread the most immediate thing rake does is to loosen the tension in the lowers therefore allowing the mast to bend a lot more and flatten the sail. Next, due to the fixed shrouds the whole rig falls to leeward a bit therefore allowing more air to be spilled. Then the daggerboard can be raked back a bit to balance the CoE that has moved back and the reduces power in the sail. I'm sure there are more effects, but I can't be certain beyond these. The point is that the cumulative knock-on effects of adjusting one control turns out to be quite dramatic overall effect.
|
|
![]() |
|
Oatsandbeans ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 19 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I think that the main effect of raking the rig is the mast bend effect. For every 1/2 hole that we rake the mast back ( equivalent to ~2" of mast tip movement) we get ~7mm more of mast bend. So if you drop the rig back 4" at the tip, by dropping the shrouds 1 full hole you can get 15mm more prebend. If you want to know how this effects the mainsail shape this will take 1.5% camber out of the sail which has a significant flattening and depowering effect when its breezy and you need the sail as flat as you can.
|
|
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page 123 4> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |