New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Are racing Dinghy Sailors cheats by nature?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Are racing Dinghy Sailors cheats by nature?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 20>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Are racing Dinghy Sailors cheats by nature?
    Posted: 08 Oct 13 at 2:42pm
Having just recounted a story of a bunch of moths entering one of the early restricted sailboard classes and abusing the system by building oversized sails out to the measurement tolerances, I'm wondering if the reason for the zealous application of rules in some arenas is exactly for this reason.

Has it always been a cheating culture?

Do you even consider measurement infractions as cheating and if not why are they so rigorously imposed yet often other more blatant examples such as kinetic action and boat on boat infractions get ignored, or left to self police.

Logic says if you have Zealouts on the shore why not on the water?

I can't think of another sport (other than maybe that silly walking game with the stupid shaped stick hitting little balls into oversize holes)that has so many opportunites for rule abuse and a culture that almost encourages the seeking of advantage by deception (Bandits).

I've always been a tad on the naive side, (it comes with the star sign) but there is definitely a culture of fair play avoidance at almost every level.

Why is this?

Edited by iGRF - 08 Oct 13 at 2:44pm
Snow Equipment Deals    New Core Kite website
Back to Top
yellowwelly View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 13 at 2:49pm
'Do your turns in the protest room'. Advice given at a regional Oppy training session I attended in the early 90's- I sh*t you not.
Back to Top
boatbasher View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 17 Aug 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 76 		Post Options Post Options   Quote boatbasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 13 at 3:08pm
Cheats everywhere but they are in the minority ...

I once heard of a windsurfer who spread suntan lotion all over a rivals deck at the lunch break ... some people will always be bandits ;-)
Back to Top
sandgrounder View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 01 Apr 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 13 at 3:18pm
Haven't seen much cheating in dinghies.
 
I remember at the Windsurfing Bacardi World Cup on the Isle of Man in 1981 there was a small English guy who was doing a lot of pumping, long before it was officially sanctioned ;-)
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 13 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Having just recounted a story of a bunch of moths entering one of the early restricted sailboard classes and abusing the system by building oversized sails out to the measurement tolerances,


If they built the sails to the tolerances, how are they cheats? Do sailors want to gain all the advantages they can within the rules before they get on the water - yes - it is an equipment sport. Do there need to be people who check that what has been done fits the rules - yes - that is why there are rules, to limit what is done. Do people push the rules to breaking point? Of course they do - there are boundary pushers in any sport. Are some of them deliberate cheats? Yes. But at least, as far as I'm aware, they aren't pumping themselves full of drugs to get an edge.

Given the much more physical nature of air rowing, is there a drug problem within the upper end of the sport yet?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
sandgrounder View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 01 Apr 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 13 at 3:29pm
Cheating doesn't generally pay though, as I think Dee Caldwell won the event in Port Erin, or was it Steffan van den Bergh?
 
It put me right off the sport, to be honest, and after my first serious event I decided to go back to dinghy sailing.
Back to Top
rogerd View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 25 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1076 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 13 at 4:00pm
I dont think dinghy sailors are anymore cheats than any other competetive sportsmen/women. In all sports you will find those who will try to find that little bit extra advantage and push regulations to the limit and beyond. However there are some fleets that have a reputation for pushing those limits. 

Edited by rogerd - 08 Oct 13 at 4:01pm
Back to Top
gordon View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Sep 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 13 at 4:05pm
I believe that you have raised an important point.

In my experience most sailors do not "cheat". They will, on the other hand push the boundaries of what is acceptable to the limit. Just like my teenage son. And, once again like many teenagers, they need to be reminded of where the limits lie and how inacceptable it is to go beyond these limits. These limits are only partially determined by the wording of the rules, far more by the way the sailors in the class or club interpret and apply the rules.

Which is why all sailors must take seriously their obligation both respect and enforce the rules. In the end it is neither the rules nor the judges and umpires who define the boundaries, it is the social pressure excercised by fellow sailors. If you are sailing in a class or club in which sailors regularily go beyond the limits imposed by a conventional interpretation of the rules that is largely because the consensus in the class or club is that they should be permitted to do so, or that it is not worth the effort to attempt to modify the behaviour of these "limit-pushers"!
Gordon
Back to Top
rogerd View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 25 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1076 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 13 at 4:08pm
Gordon your last line sums it up really i"t is not worth the effort to attempt " Some big fish in small ponds are very good at "interpreting" the rules and then everyone else lets it happen because Joe has been here years we cant question him. The last time he read a rule book was probably in the 70s. Anyone else had Mast abeam called on them lately?
Back to Top
gordon View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Sep 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 13 at 4:30pm
Some things can be done - find a local qualified judge and ask him to attend your next regatta or open meeting. Provide him/her with a RIB and askhim/her to blow a whistlewhn they see an infringement.
Then adjourn to the bar and discuss!

Protests should be a weekly occurence - can you imagine a football match without the referee blowing his whistle
Gordon
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 20>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy