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I reckon it will be great to see the MPSs and 700s racing off scratch at the tide ride, 700 may be faster in a straight line but the musto is far quicker at corners, that will be the acid test. 

yer you are bias!!   but the mps is definatly a better boat and the mps is got a better racing future!

Originally posted by Granite Originally posted by Tornado_ALIVE Mean no offence here but why is the UK hell bent on changing the Cherub and destroying a world class dinghy.  The cherub was a good trainer and had strong identical boats around the world.  It now seems that the UK are trying to turn the Cherub into a 12 foot skiff.  Why don't they leave the cherub as a traing skiff and world dinghy.  May be try and grow the class a little more and seek international status.  If you wan't a 12 foot skiff, introduce the class and don't accept a poor imitation. UK Cherubs have been different from southern hemisphere ones since the eighties and I do not think that there has been any prospect of re amalgamating the rules since then. In the UK the cherub is not seen as a training boat and with the advent of the 29er as the official "Youth" boat it never will be. the class has been keen to develop the boat as something that can perform well and be fun to sail for lighter adults in the sort of wind that we get in the UK which is an average of around 11 Kts It

boats are modified for the area they race in therefore around the world one would expect many different conditions and many different variations.

from my view the development classes should do just that,develop, constantly pushing new limits and being at the front of change.

Originally posted by Tornado_ALIVE But at the end of the day, what ever floats your boat........

never was a truer word spoke

Errr... two hemispheres changed direction from each other some time ago
(1984) because the two sailing markets are significantly different. At the
time of the split the UK was the more progressive in it's thinking and the
Australians more conservative. The rule proposals were even supported
by the original design of the Cherub, John Spencer, but were not accepted
by the Southern Hemisphere.

Here is are some short sections from our history pages from our web site:

1.
"From 1981 to 1984 there were no new Cherub designs in the UK, due to
a package of rule change proposals under consideration. These were
adopted by the UK Class Association (but not the Australian or New
Zealand Associations). in 1984, and the following designs are all to these
rules. The revised rules relaxed the mid-length chine restrictions, and
permit sail-plan development. The area of main and jib also increased
slightly to 125 sq.-ft. Its interesting to note that these changes were
supported by John Spencer, the original designer of the class, but the
Australian Cherub Association, very much the largest at that time, was
very much opposed."

2.
"In 1991 a further rule change saw the introduction of bowsprits and an
increase in spinnaker size. This inevitably meant asymmetric spinnakers.
A year or so had been spent in intense development until the final rule
was defined, which gave a sail of a nominal 140 sq. ft, (actually about
150-160 sq.ft.). This, coupled with the new flat narrow hull shapes has
led to a boat with quite astonishing offwind performance in medium
breezes."

3.
" In 1995 there was a surprise development in Australia. Iain Murray &
Associates designed a Cherub to the UK rules, complete with asymmetric
spinnaker, for Hugh Treharne (Tactician on Australia 2 in 1983 amongst
other achievements) and some other prominent Australian sailors. They
wanted a suitable boat for their sons to sail in-between the junior classes
and the skiffs, and felt that the International rules Cherub with its boxy
hull shape and conventional spinnaker was too far removed from the
mainstream of development. Their initiative was not greeted with
enthusiasm by the Australian Cherub Class, and the boats were registered
in the UK.

4.
The Australians and New Zealanders adopted asymmetric spinnakers in
1997.

5.
1997 the Brits elected for a further simplification of the measurement
rules, and, with the impact of the new SMOD semi-skiff types, also
elected to increase the sail area slightly to 12.5 sq.m. fore and aft,
15sq.m. spinnaker.

So please are you telling me we'd be better of with 9ft poles and
symmetrical spinnakers but an international class. I think not. It is the
same today. We as a class are responding to the wishes of our members
and to the market.

On a slightly different note about launching classes and importing boats.
It isn't as easy or as cost effective and risk free as you may think. I doubt
whether the 12 ft skiff could work over here due to our types of clubs,
sailing waters and sailors. Lets face it most UK sailors don't really get the
UK Cherub so it's unlikely that they'll get the 12-ft skiff either.