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Null View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 10:16am
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by kneewrecker




If RS has any influence over the Aero retaining the 1040 whilst the D-Zero gets a cobbling down the ranks, then I think that reflects incredibly badly on them.


They (RS) almost certainly have had no hand in that, I'd been chatting to Martin that very morning and they were concerned more at the drubbing they'd had at all you Zero fanbois and feeling upset by it all given they've not exactly pointed out all the faults of the Zero in the way the reverse has been the case.



Graeme that's absolute bull sh*t!  No one has drubbed the boat, there has just been talk over the merits and pitfalls of both!  They 'RS' had a drubbing from me and others over how they marketed the boat.  I have questioned some of their decisions around the build, but frankly why wouldn't I?  I am a paying consumer after all! There have been claims in marketing about Big Ben Ainsle that were retracted, boat tests done by the now class manager, turning up to competitors demo days, selling a product that weighs 42kg all up as lift able.  They (RS) didn't need to do any of that, it did them no favours, just made what is the most professional outfit in this industry look like it is run by amateurs.  They could of just sold the boat for what it is, please don't start playing a small violin because you have some hidden agenda as to you real change of buying choice!  The only facts we have available are:

1) Some Bozo has made up a PY for a handicap one off event, using an RYA system.  The NUMBER IS NOT RATIFIED

2) You spoke with the MD of RS yesterday, then decided to cancel you order with their direct competitors product......
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 10:17am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

 
If and I use it very carefully, If RS has any influence over the Aero retaining the 1040 whilst the D-Zero gets a cobbling down the ranks, then I think that reflects incredibly badly on them.  

FWIW - I don't think that would be the case, the impression I get is that Pete has been taken to grow grassroots fleets like Lymington and Bowmoor - if RS's motives have ever been about club racing in PY fleets, then they have hidden it very well imho.  They certainly wouldn't have launched another class/classes with multiple PNs after all the sh*t we went through with the RS100, and in even earlier history, they really couldn't have cared less when the Vareo got a shoeing from 1050ish to 1035 iirc.  The stock response was 'come to class events instead'.

quoting myself as Grumpf was being naughty with selective quotes  Wink

As for 'fanbois' and RS getting upset.  Seriously?  Surely they've been around sailing long enough to know the wind shifts from time to time?  They can't be the old school 'alternative brand' conceived on a harbour wall they once were, and the new 'Laser Performance' mainstream brand at the same time.    

Even Apple isn't cool anymore and they'll have to accept a bit of drubbing when they give us crap like this iOS 8 I downloaded last night.  But guess what, they're profits are up, so like RS, no reason to really grumble.  
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 10:20am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by Null

Frankly its not on.  i would of hoped the RYA would of taken someone using their logo a little more seriously......

no it's not, but as Chris explained it seems like a fairly simple and unintentional mistake to make when the RYA publish something in such easily editable formats.  

The REAL issue for the D-Zero here is why it's got a 1010 as a number in the first place, which has very little to do with the Aero's 1040.  

IMHO- I think it's a bit of stretch to assume anyone at RS has influenced that, even if they are donating a prize.  

I know this may strike as a bit of an RS apologist post, but for all I could levy at them, manipulating the PY system isn't one of them.  Frankly I've got the impression that PY racing and its politics are a bit beneath them anyway...   

You guys need to either take issue with the RO (and by association, probably the GL guys) or you need to pull out of the event - as Graeme is essentially doing by retracting his order on these grounds.





Wow Back up Jimbo, please dont put words in my mouth.  I have not ever once said on open forum or otherwise that RS have manipulated the Zero PY for this event.  i did say it looked a bit weird that an RS sponsored event the Aero Rigs had not been split (you would think they would get this right) and that given that the only club that i can find with delivered boats (bowmoor) is sailing them off 1025  But yet the Zero, which is widely being sailed off anywhere from 1010 to 1045 had been clattered.


I never once insinuated that RS had messed with the PY's on here.

Anyway, i have really got to go to a meeting with work now.....Need to pay for my boat some how!


Edited by Null - 19 Sep 14 at 10:22am
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 10:21am
Originally posted by Null

 

2) You spoke with the MD of RS yesterday, then decided to cancel you order with their direct competitors product......

hmm, now there's a thought, is Demo offering 0% APR?   LOL
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Simon Lovesey View Drop Down
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Posts: 349 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 10:24am
Pete Barton has now confirmed his intention to race an RS Aero 9 at Sunday's Battle of Classes.

His was one of the last entries received,  and did not state which rig size he would be using,  which I think gave the organising club some challenges in generating the start list in the first place. 

Given we now know more about which Aero we are dealing with,  I have suggested to the organisers (SailRacer is only doing the media) that the Zero and Aero both start at the same time on the basis they are similar boats and we have no/little real data to make any more meaningful decisions
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 10:24am
Originally posted by Null

Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by Null

Frankly its not on.  i would of hoped the RYA would of taken someone using their logo a little more seriously......

no it's not, but as Chris explained it seems like a fairly simple and unintentional mistake to make when the RYA publish something in such easily editable formats.  

The REAL issue for the D-Zero here is why it's got a 1010 as a number in the first place, which has very little to do with the Aero's 1040.  

IMHO- I think it's a bit of stretch to assume anyone at RS has influenced that, even if they are donating a prize.  

I know this may strike as a bit of an RS apologist post, but for all I could levy at them, manipulating the PY system isn't one of them.  Frankly I've got the impression that PY racing and its politics are a bit beneath them anyway...   

You guys need to either take issue with the RO (and by association, probably the GL guys) or you need to pull out of the event - as Graeme is essentially doing by retracting his order on these grounds.





Wow Back up Jimbo, please dont put words in my mouth.  I have not ever once said on open forum or otherwise that RS have manipulated the Zero PY for this event.  i did say it looked a bit weird that an RS sponsored event the Aero Rigs had not been split (you would think they would get this right) and that given that the only club that i can find with delivered boats (bowmoor) is sailing them off 1025  But yet the Zero, which is widely being sailed off anywhere from 1010 to 1045 had been clattered.


I never once insinuated that RS had messed with the PY's on here.

mate- I hadn't suggested you had, but that is the undertone of the recent couple of pages.  

anyway, you're right... it's weird, lacks control and imho, appears to stink- which is not good for either.  

And kind of backs up my view that when it comes to PYs, RS frankly aren't that interested in it and all the shenanigans that go with it.  
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 10:28am
Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

Pete Barton has now confirmed his intention to race an RS Aero 9 at Sunday's Battle of Classes.

His was one of the last entries received,  and did not state which rig size he would be using,  which I think gave the organising club some challenges in generating the start list in the first place. 

Given we now know more about which Aero we are dealing with,  I have suggested to the organisers (SailRacer is only doing the media) that the Zero and Aero both start at the same time on the basis they are similar boats and we have no/little real data to make any more meaningful decisions



Simon Great news.  Thanks.
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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 10:30am
Originally posted by Bas Edmonds

 
The numbers published by the RYA for each class are offered to the clubs to be able run mixed class racing - 

So what should clubs do with new classes which have no returns to support a figure?
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 10:32am
Just a thought, what's Graeme going to do when the eps no longer has enough returns to give it a valid py number???  
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Posts: 372 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Thunder Road Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 10:35am
I have a feeling that there is a race comm. somewhere that wishes it had stayed in bed this morning. They had obviously never heard of an Aero (with its 3 rigs) or a D-Zero, made their best guess, thought it was a fun event and nobody cares who wins, after all it's just for charity. Now they are in a bunker and the incoming is arriving from all directions! Time to call the RYA cavalry I think and re do their figures, eat a little humble pie and get on with the event, just a way out for all without casualties?
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