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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: R Speculation
    Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 1:35pm
The 700 had its record lowest ever nationals attendance since its second year of production and has reduced in numbers YOY since 2011 Simon hardly a reassurance.

I think James point was more about the strap line used by Rs in terms of marketing 3 years of development by RS.  When in fact i believe the project was only taken over from Oman sailing in early 2013...Don't think he is grumbling over who should and shouldn't build a boat, just that statement.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Null

The 700 had its record lowest ever nationals attendance since its second year of production and has reduced in numbers YOY since 2011 Simon hardly a reassurance.

I think James point was more about the strap line used by Rs in terms of marketing 3 years of development by RS.  When in fact i believe the project was only taken over from Oman sailing in early 2013...Don't think he is grumbling over who should and shouldn't build a boat, just that statement.

Blimey, all out corporate character assassination from a strap line, thats impressive.

For the purpose of this boat the designer, Jo Richards, is part of the RS team, so its hardly stretching credence! If they had bought an old design and claimed they had designed it well maybe, but they haven't. 
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 1:54pm
Without getting too drawn into the semantics, is Jo not an independent designer that was commissioned to design a boat for Oman sailing?  Which later folded and the deign purchased by RS?  So by definition RS purchased a design and then took over development?  Its nit picking to be honest, hardly corporate assassination. (they are questions, i don't know hence why asking)  No denying the boat is different from the picture of the early Oman version.  Not that i ever saw it personally in the flesh.  

Like i said earlier on in this thread its funny how in other sports people give manufacturers grief over marketing, product choice, design flaws etc.  sure there is debate, but its weird how tribal it gets on Y&Y.  Lets be fair, if it wasn't for comments like above this thread would of been buried ages ago and no one would be talking about the boat!
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 1:59pm
mate, I don't need a chill pill, I'm perfectly cool with whomever buying whatever from whomever....  I'm sure LTSC will have great fun bobbing around in the Solent chop in their new Aeros.  Odd though, as they were the first ermerging fleet to pull the plug on their RS100 antics as it simply lacked the stones needed.

I also respect the fact that the brand has grown, blimey, anyone doing that in the dinghy business is doing a sterling job.  And Graeme's point is also valid- I'd still steer newbies towards RS boats if they weren't fussed about one-design racing, or their club only ran handicap anyway.  

But I do think quality has been on slide though when you compare the early RS boats that hit the water in the 90's verses that of today- maybe the Aero will prove different, I'm allowed to take a cynical view on that though, given the claims of weight reduction.  Solid boats tend to be 'heavy' for good reason- I also think ripping the mass out of the 100 was one of the errors, so again, having the lightest boat on your PDF brochure really isn't some that personally impresses me after my own experiences.  I'd rather pay for a solid build- like my Solo from Winder, or my Ovington Musto Skiff.

As Russ says, I'm simply calling bullsh*t to some aspects of the press release... and you are quite within your rights to disagree with me, in fact someone disagreeing with someone's opinion is what makes this forum (and wider discussion outside of it) survive.  Although you won't find me suggesting you need a 'chill pill' or trying to put words in your mouth.  
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 2:16pm
First I'd heard of it being a boat for Oman sail - is there a link to info anywhere?
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by Rupert

First I'd heard of it being a boat for Oman sail - is there a link to info anywhere?

nope- you won't find out much about it on the internet, funny that?!?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 2:32pm
Nothing to do with weight as to why the 100 had a few issues. IMHO boat has too much rocker and to much sail and shape still not that fast upwind.

The d-one works better in the chop, but even the first full on d-one open had guys turning up thinking gybing in a seaway would be the same as on a lake only to find the water tasted salty.

In a dinghy, design is far more important than weight and if thats not the case what is all this carbon in hulls for - similar concept must apply in windsurfing - you could make a very steady board out of solid oak, but it would sail like cr*p? This boat pumps like a windsurfer try it and see 

Apart from one centreboard issue ( boat collected from club fixed and returned) I don't think we had any quality issues with the 100's at all in fact consensus was that they were some of the best built RS boats we had seen. Getting the odd thing wrong happens with all boat companies, but its how they deal with it that counts and I would argue that RS are better than most if there is an issue. 

You wouldn't believe the dreadful quality of the foil delivered with my last boat (not an RS) and despite talk of new mould tools being got for over a year, they kept churning the foils out like that. Boat was fine but neither parts were up to RS or devotti quality.

I am not here to defend any manufacturer I just buy boats from anyone when its what I, or in this case a group of us, decide is right for here, but at the same time I will also not use a forum to just have a go at them.

I think I left a series of dots....... no words there then  Confused
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 2:42pm
The weight and the rocker go together, really - take weight out, and the rocker line needs to change. So I guess it depends whether the weight reduction from the proto was to bring the boat down to design weight, or whether it was already there, and they made it lighter.

As for the other aspect of this thread - the questioning of the wording of RS's press releases - there is a fine line between questioning and trolling, and I suspect that it is there that threads are at thier most fun. Too far on one side, and the thread dies of boredom. Too far on the other, and it just ends up as a nasty place to be. Thought this one was treading the line quite well, but maybe the point has been made - time for the next heckle raising statement?!

Of course, the great thing about this thread title is that it allows great freedom of expression about the RS range, despite its beginnings as the proto Aero thread.
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 2:46pm
Simon that comment about the D-One open is a little disingenuous.  Gybing was not the difficulty  the odd wave pattern made making it downhill very tricky.  In fact i didn't dick it in on one gybe.  i did park it in the back of a wave on several occasions, but then so did Specky and the home sailors.  

Maybe you didn't have problems with your 100, does that mean the whole fleet is trouble free.  I'm sure it does RS or the Aero in fact any good starting to look at historic faults with classes.  Every manufacturer has problems, its the nature of the beast.  You are absolutely right its how you handle those problems that matter.  
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by Null

I am confussed, i thought RS bought the design from the defunct Oman sailing project which was seen sailing at Camel Week 2012??

http://www.photoboxgallery.com/camelweek/photo?photo_id=3505963462&vendor_id=3438239

On another note, that RS Venture keel boat looks lovely.  I like that allot. What a versatile idea, great for disabled sailors and looks to be a fabulous family boat.

Here you go Rupert, picture of it sailing at Camel week.  quoted earlier in the thread
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