Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
D-Zero |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 19 Sep 14 at 9:19am |
All the usual nonsense. The only way to know exactly how fast a boat is is to race it for a while, with different helms and different conditions. "setting a number" is simply guesswork. As for the crap about taking legal action, how exactly does that help anything? If you won, there would be no one willing to run a handicapping system, but I'm not exactly sure that any one would see a case like that as anything but a whinging old man complaining that his toy hasn't been allowed to win a race against other little toys.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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rich96 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 20 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 596 |
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You cant have it both ways. On one hand you are saying you don't mind losing but on the other you don't want Mrs Miggins reminding you who beat you in a local handicap race ? If you have no intention of doing any proper fleet racing you have to accept that every dog has its day - providing its sailed well enough on that day. Hence you cant get worked up about results of handicap racing. Its quite simple if you want to do well in handicap sailing - buy a boat that physically suits you and the water that you sail it on, learn to sail it very well and results will look after themselves. Don't buy something that probably is too big and powerful for you in the first place simply because you thought it might have a good handicap and be able to beat some Solos and Streakers on a local lake. If your fellow competitors 'cant sail the skin of a rice pudding' you'll beat them in anything ? |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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It's a matter also of residual value. I am not going to pay nearly six grand for something that will be worth a fraction of that at the hands of these bozos.
Ask any Phantom owner how much his boat is now worth. Ask Icon owners. Like it or not this has commercial ramifications. |
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Thunder Road ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 24 Jun 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 372 |
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I think it is time for the RYA to take a lead and put an end to these varying H/C systems, with the best will in the world they have allowed/encouraged clubs to run events with modified PYs to take into account local conditions, etc. Possibly the moment has come for all RYA sanctioned clubs and events to be run under the strict published figures, until the system can be reviewed. It may also encourage people to push their clubs to make their annual returns. This anarchy and hysteria on various forums will damage all, even those who may seek to gain by it. |
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Finn GBR16 Thunder Road.
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2547 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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The threat of legal action is just forum talk ... he wont do it.
Although I do think that he has a point to some extent. Someone has represented those RYAs as RYA prescribed; if they are not from the RYA they should jump on that ASAP. But I think they RYA have a role to help set a starting number and in this case they should set them the same ... I can't help but think there are some connections in these matters ...
Edited by 2547 - 19 Sep 14 at 9:48am |
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Much as I think you guys backed the wonky donkey* rather than Holman's glorious steed, I 100% respect the way you conducted that process. As you say, no one will care what the handicap is, nor where you came against the Merlin once you've got more than 3 or 4 of you out there in those Aeros. I guess how a Supernova did, or where the Streaker came might be interesting... but only so you can use it to rally the poor sod to your cause and get him/her in a new Aero. As someone who can't really commit to a travelling circuit (so that club racing becomes little more than convivial 'training'), I've always assumed that buying in to a new class might come with a change in primary location - I moved clubs for the 100, ironically from somewhere which would have been a better geographic location. Had my boat fund (and winter sun and ski holiday fund) not been committed to Stamp Duty this October, I would have been joining Oxford SC with the D-Zero. Those buying in to new classes with only PY racing on offer, need to accept the way the system works. In truth, if they can't, then they are better off waiting and seeing what comes out in the wash in a few years time. If there's one thing they could do though to speed up the process, it would be ensure that their results are submitted to the RYA- not something H&SSC currently do iirc? (* gross hypothesis based on never actually seeing one in the flesh)
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Punky ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 11 Feb 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 90 |
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Actually, that is a exactly the point. At 1025 (the Aero 5 number that I understand GWSC are using) no-one in their right mind would want one - losibng every race no matter how well you sail is not going to encourage participation. Put the handicap up to 1150 and it'll sell like hot cakes. Therefore the authority to set and alter this number should be controlled - and who is better placed than the RYA?
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Null ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 May 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 745 |
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Graeme, for goodness sake. Have you forgotten to take you pills this week?
Surely by now you know that club returns and statistics from those returns make up a calculated PY??? Please say you understand this raw basic? If so then you have nothing to worry about. The statistics wont lie! The PY system has done some great things making Bandit classes race on a more level playing field. What you should be outraged about is some wally has guessed at a PY for one boat and not the other, Thats the nonsense in this whole thing!
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Null ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 May 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 745 |
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BINGO! Thats exactly my point. The rest of this is just hot air and speculation! Some monkey has used RYA logos in an RYA format to give some credit to a frankly biased bogus set of numbers. When there is a prize on the table of the event thats worth a couple of grand.....It stinks to me! Some needs to be accountable
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Don't get me wrong, I totally see where you are coming from regarding a 'pre-EN' for want of a better acronym, however don't you think a manufacturer influenced number would be open to far more abuse than the current system? As it currently stands, Bas (and Chris) have been very clear- an official EN will ONLY be published based on data from club returns. As it stands, all that we actually have here is a document made public using artwork it's seemingly not entitled too. A retraction by the originator and publicist (sorry Simon, I appreciate it isn't 'your fault' ![]() If and I use it very carefully, If RS has any influence over the Aero retaining the 1040 whilst the D-Zero gets a cobbling down the ranks, then I think that reflects incredibly badly on them. FWIW - I don't think that would be the case, the impression I get is that Pete has been taken to grow grassroots fleets like Lymington and Bowmoor - if RS's motives have ever been about club racing in PY fleets, then they have hidden it very well imho. They certainly wouldn't have launched another class/classes with multiple PNs after all the sh*t we went through with the RS100, and in even earlier history, they really couldn't have cared less when the Vareo got a shoeing from 1050ish to 1035 iirc. The stock response was 'come to class events instead'.
Edited by kneewrecker - 19 Sep 14 at 9:47am |
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