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Null View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 11:48am
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by Rupert

The area they haven't got covered for me is a slightly bigger version of the Feva with a trap for teens to sail and clubs to own. Maybe 13 feet long.

... and with 420s and 29ers covering this space, with event programmes that make those teenage years fun, I can see why RS wouldn't attack that market space.  Young adults will buy with their peers... that a lot of instagram and snapchat for even the RS marketing machine to consider getting on the case with.


More thinking of something to fill the gap before the 29er - huge jump from a Feva to that, and one I have seen teens put off sailing by. But a longer boat with more space for a bigger crew than a Feva can fit, with a kite that, while not huge, is big enough to make a difference, rotomoulded to encourage club ownership. I know at Whitefriars, we used to own a 29er, and it was a nightmare to keep running. Apart from a 420, we now stop at the Feva, and expect people to buy something id they want a faster boat. That could change if RS brought out a boat like the above, and it would also be big enough to use as a hire boat for average sized adults.

I agree Rupert, RS have some good footings within the youth sector now with the Terra and Feva, but there seems a gap in between, if that was filled then I guess they good long term have a development programme that would see people hooked to the brand for life at the moment there is a hole through which people can leave.
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 11:55am
The 3000 actually fills the gap very nicely. The nat champ the year I joined the class was a slim teenage girl, crewed by a boy from her school prob 110kg between them. And it was F4 most races they won.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by Null

Jimbo, thats kinda of the point.  Just look what happened to the 90's classes.  People were sold too, perhaps not the correct boat more an idealogy.  It came, people had fun and whent.  in the mean time the 505's grew again, the fireball, Gp14, Solo, Contender.  Which is the better success story?

I am a former RS funboy, I still like a number of things they do.  But what I really liked was the no nonsense marketing of Old.  Great boats that pushed traditional boundaries 200, 300, 400, 600.  Good products, built well, with a strong administration behind them and a relaxed but consistent marketing message.  You actually wanted to be part of it.  

I think this misperception rather than reality. The MD is the same as the one who started the whole thing and you can't ever accuse them or indeed Rodney and crew of not being passionate about sailing and their products. Back in the days when I bought my 300 off them, they still did the same Y&Y marketing, the RS class Association was much the same. Apart from moving a few miles down the road and having to support a bigger range there is not a massive difference as far as I can see. perhaps its the demise of the Laser and Topper businesses, which has made them seem big. The fact is that ,the laser itself aside, both those businesses abandoned racing dinghies whilst RS didn't. The void has been filled by many smaller builders such as Hartley,  Ovingtons and ones who build or market one or two boats.

Sailing itself has taken a downturn with other pressures on young people, but if you are young and want to club sail and have a shiny new boat, 29er aside, where are you going to go and find different offerings and a strong set of class events?

If anything shouldn't we be grateful that they are still here producing boats year in year out and haven't suffered the fate of laser and sold out to a large corporate with a sole interest in the numbers.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 12:04pm
Several of our Juniors bought 3000s as a faster boat, but it isn't perfect for the job, and isn't a boat I'd like the club to own, though it was discussed at one point. Mainly, though, it isn't roto and isn't RS, to keep the cradle to grave thing going.

Talking of "to grave", where do people go in the range once they are too knackered to dinghy sail any more? Do they still have a keelboat on the books? Or is that waiting until the ones who started sailing 200s 20 years ago are in need?
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 12:08pm
Simon we will have to agree to disagree I guess.  I wouldn't dream of questioning the passion of RS or any retailer in the Dinghy world.  But the new product range seems weaker to me (to caveat that) in my opinion.  Also the marketing has a significantly different 'taste' to it from where I am standing.  Maybe this is different thanks to the invent of social media, youtube etc.  No one can argue they are certainly the experts at getting a new class off the ground, just to me the long term strategy seems a little...well confusing.

I guess its really 'Business' at the end of the day and there is only so much you can allow for that initial passion to get in the way of turnover and profit.
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

Originally posted by Null

Jimbo, thats kinda of the point.  Just look what happened to the 90's classes.  People were sold too, perhaps not the correct boat more an idealogy.  It came, people had fun and whent.  in the mean time the 505's grew again, the fireball, Gp14, Solo, Contender.  Which is the better success story?

I am a former RS funboy, I still like a number of things they do.  But what I really liked was the no nonsense marketing of Old.  Great boats that pushed traditional boundaries 200, 300, 400, 600.  Good products, built well, with a strong administration behind them and a relaxed but consistent marketing message.  You actually wanted to be part of it.  

I think this misperception rather than reality. 

nope- I think it's bang on.  When the company, or its outsourcing partner, morphed into a more profit hungry model it changed production and the quality dropped... Brazil anyone?  The consumer couldn't give a rats arse that it was RMW who f**ked up, it's an RS boat and their brand image changed- irreversibly.  

In my opinion the 700 and 100 appeared to have been rushed to market without the quality controls or solid design and research of the old 300s, 400s and 200s.  Even some of the old 600s are still going strong- and they've nearly all been brutalised by a student or two along their merry paths.  I find it utterly ironic that their best singlehander, the RS300, seems to be fairing better outside of their direct control and truly in the hands of a core ownership, who if peeved off, could quite legimately take the class in a new, vibrant direction - open the sailmaker up boys, go on, please....  

You can then add in a global distribution model- via a contacts book purchased via the former MD of Laser UK.  And there's probably no coincidence that the former, defunct concept singlehander from Oman Sails is given a new lease of life with an RS badge slapped on it.  You can sit there and buy all that R&D in the press release if you wish, 3 years solid isn't it?  Or you can keep your ears and eyes open and get a glimpse of some of the behind the scenes and make your own mind up.  
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Several of our Juniors bought 3000s as a faster boat, but it isn't perfect for the job, and isn't a boat I'd like the club to own, though it was discussed at one point. Mainly, though, it isn't roto and isn't RS, to keep the cradle to grave thing going.

Talking of "to grave", where do people go in the range once they are too knackered to dinghy sail any more? Do they still have a keelboat on the books? Or is that waiting until the ones who started sailing 200s 20 years ago are in need?

I might hazard a guess that keelboats are being left to others for the time being.... Although I'm sure that RS wouldn't mind an SB3-alike keelboat sales volume success*, there are many other "fails" which I should think are cause to be conservative, besides I'm thinking a 400 or 200 could be a vehicle for my fifth or sixth decade, barring something else coming along ...

*as I have no idea if any profit got made!
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by Rupert


with a kite that, while not huge, is big enough to make a difference, rotomoulded to encourage club ownership.

I think they'd say that's the RS500. I don't know that the technology yet exists to make such a boat out of thermoplastic successfully. To my mind You start getting into diminishing returns above Feva size, and the weight and material you'd need to make a performance boat work would kill it as a performance boat.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 12:38pm
There's always the Vago. Ghastly.

I like Fevas (for what they are), but I'm with Jim, bigger ones just don't seem to work as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 14 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by SimonW99

[QUOTE=Null]Jimbo, thats kinda of the point.  Just look what happened to the 90's classes.  People were sold too, perhaps not the correct boat more an idealogy.  It came, people had fun and whent.  in the mean time the 505's grew again, the fireball, Gp14, Solo, Contender.  Which is the better success story?

I am a former RS funboy, I still like a number of things they do.  But what I really liked was the no nonsense marketing of Old.  Great boats that pushed traditional boundaries 200, 300, 400, 600.  Good products, built well, with a strong administration behind them and a relaxed but consistent marketing message.  You actually wanted to be part of it.  

I think this misperception rather than reality. 

nope- I think it's bang on.  When the company, or its outsourcing partner, morphed into a more profit hungry model it changed production and the quality dropped... Brazil anyone?  The consumer couldn't give a rats arse that it was RMW who f**ked up, it's an RS boat and their brand image changed- irreversibly.  

In my opinion the 700 and 100 appeared to have been rushed to market without the quality controls or solid design and research of the old 300s, 400s and 200s.  Even some of the old 600s are still going strong- and they've nearly all been brutalised by a student or two along their merry paths.  I find it utterly ironic that their best singlehander, the RS300, seems to be fairing better outside of their direct control and truly in the hands of a core ownership, who if peeved off, could quite legimately take the class in a new, vibrant direction - open the sailmaker up boys, go on, please....  

You can then add in a global distribution model- via a contacts book purchased via the former MD of Laser UK.  And there's probably no coincidence that the former, defunct concept singlehander from Oman Sails is given a new lease of life with an RS badge slapped on it.  You can sit there and buy all that R&D in the press release if you wish, 3 years solid isn't it?  Or you can keep your ears and eyes open and get a glimpse of some of the behind the scenes and make your own mind up.  
[/

Sorry there is no logic here at all.

700 was a great success, had a period when the MS got well ahead through some intense support, but seems back in the ascendancy. It's a far more complex product than a 200 and was pretty spot on out of the box.

I accept the 100 simply tried to hard and made the mistake of an arms race IMHO.

Because cirrus didn't originate the blaze or by definition the halo/ fire shouldn't mike be selling it?

Don't think any solo is built by the designer! 

What company wouldn't use it's contacts when developing a network?

I have no idea who Jo did or didn't start the design with, but he designed it and can finnish it with whoever he chooses. Should Devotti be selling the Dzero, which is based on Dans punk when he had no connection with them at all when he designed it.

Think a chill pill needed here.

Or is there something you would like to stand up and tell the group.

My name is knee wrecker and I .......
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