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D-Zero

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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: D-Zero
    Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 10:42pm
Same principle. In which case he's ripping the potential purchaser off with a 1K markup.....

This is a one off event where the PY has been set for that event, probably got the py wrong, but that ain't a reason to cancel the purchase of a damn good boat. After all py's can be changed at club level anyway, can't they?? 

I buy a boat to enjoy sailing it, not to win races - note that my current choice was obviously a bandit class (???) but that wasn't the reason for getting it before you say so. I'd love to be light enough to sail a D-Zero, but even if I got ebola that ain't going to happen anytime soon.

I bought a RS300 brand new with no idea what the PY was going to be, never had a clue at the time. It was a boat that excited me and that I wanted to sail and race, whatever the results would have turned out like. I think that the D-Zero could be like that as well (for someone lighter obviously). 
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 10:44pm
Well chaps, even though I would have thought previous debates on handicaps on this forum had set a pretty challenging mark as regards clear thinking, this one is really going way beyond any previous levels...

Edited by JimC - 18 Sep 14 at 10:45pm
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 10:45pm
yeah but it can always be a temperamental publicist, you don't have to pay any attention to it in the real world past this event
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Null View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 10:48pm
Who said that it wasn't competitive?  Until returns are done no one knows what the stats say!   My point Was that the zero had been knobled against it's recommend py of 1040 and the aero hadn't! Graeme has drawn a conclusion from some unsubstantiated facts, someone needs a slap at the sailing club by the rya for using their logo.  


You said yourself James before that classes shouldn't bother with a py and just let the system sort itself out, this is what will happen.  I don't think either the aero or the zero should have any advantageous py's.  To me the py is immaterial.  But fairness and clarity are important.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by JimC

Well chaps, even though I would have thought previous debates on handicaps on this forum had set a pretty challenging mark as regards clear thinking, this one is really going way beyond any previous levels...

Not sure I understand that jim.  It's clear that on rya headed script the py of one class had been hit and the other new class had not.  Easy to understand why assumptions are made.

As for clear thinking, until someone tells me otherwise the number generated vs other class movements is somewhat muddy!  No clear thinking appears to of been adopted.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 10:52pm
Yes, I can take that view- it is immaterial to me, but I'm empathetic enough towards Graeme's racing to know he woulldn't find it acceptable.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 10:56pm
Perhaps the "several grand is more of an issue".........Retrospective clear thinking.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Yes, I can take that view- it is immaterial to me, but I'm empathetic enough towards Graeme's racing to know he woulldn't find it acceptable.

But Jimbo, there is nothing to find unacceptable about yet! It's been detailed above that it's a load of hogwash that frankly stinks!  Dodgy as hell in fact, but hardly official.  History also tells us the Great Lakes numbers are always harsh on new models.  

None of this is official rya py's.  Which by the way if Graeme had followed through with his purchase he would of helped to shape the number for the future!  It's based on returns after all!   Therefore his data would have more bearing than classes with more established data!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 11:02pm
Having sailed the D-Zero several times against h/c competition I'm familiar with and can benchmark against, there's no way it's a ten-ten pocket rocket. Sure, in the right conditions (flat water / 12mph+ / with reaches) it goes up the gears. Light 'n' shifty inland is a different story. For an above-average helm like Dan a personal h/c of 1010 is tough but achievable - however your average club sailor will struggle to make an impact on 1050 (plus or minus 10). I'd be curious to hear from anyone on the GL panel or at Sail Racer that's actually raced the boat, as I wager they haven't. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 11:03pm
All the time you let these idiots dictate the value of a product, then consumers are going to do exactly what I'm doing.

Now, it looks to me like Nationalistic protectionism against an importer and favouring UK builders, and that is the case i think I'm going to have a serious look at making.

It may well be some IT buffoon has screwed up his algorithm, but this is the second time a boat I really liked the look of as been 'nobbled' by forces either malevolent or incompetent. It needs a thorough look at and somebody at the RYA needs to wake up and get a grip. Maybe something legal dropping on their mat, might just make someones eyes water enough to do something. I'm in the middle of a big lawsuit right now, so whilst I'm at it, maybe I'll see if I can't get something chucked in on the side.

Either way, the boat is cancelled and I'll keep the five grand until the dust settles and I judge that something even approaching a level playing field results. I'm not looking for advantage, if I wanted that I'd spend the five grand on a Rooster Streaker and whoop them up, get my bloody name in the paper each week looking like some hero rather than where it is, at the foot of the results humiliating a once good name, it's not about the reality sometimes, it's about dicks coming up to you in the street saying oh I see 'so and so' is beating you again, when 'so and so' is a total know nothing dork who couldn't sail the skin off a rice pudding. You can only take so much and it's been going on three years now and kind of takes a bit of the fun out of the activity, it genuinely isn't about that for me i don't mind what goes on on the water I love being beaten by somebody better than me and enjoy improving, what i don't like are the cards stacked excessively against the house and paying for that privilege.
Club racing is one of the only things growing as is handicap racing and it's time someone got a handle on it.
Frankly I'm sick of it.


Edited by iGRF - 18 Sep 14 at 11:05pm
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