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jeffers View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 11:24am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

what class?  We're talking about a boat for club racing.   I know I wouldn't bother driving for an open where the wind was less than 'Blaze' rig forecast*, and if the Blaze min hull weight dropped it would be class legal wouldn't it... 


(* pack the Halo sail just in case it doesn't play ball)  

Then you come up against the PY can of worms.......

Drop the hull weight and you will immediately obsolete all the other hulls out there.

From memory the Blaze bare hull has never been particularly weighty (IMO)
Paul
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 11:27am
Originally posted by blaze720

want to go light ?  The real way to do that is to have a simple  'fixed' wing, that is where most of any weight advantage would come from, and material choice makes only token difference.   However you might still want to drag the boat around roads to meetings .... and then you realise just how impractical things can get !   We are trying out 1.90m 'fixed' for Fire as that is still practical as well as being pretty light.

My point is that a 2.40 fixed carbon wing can't weigh that much more than a 1.90 - both have to be robust enough to take knocks, so the extra leverage loads shouldn't require that much extra beef, I'd have thought.

Is it not possible to make the wings quickly detachable for transport/boat.  Not much less quick than pulling the existing Blaze wings in and out each week should be possible.  Pins, velcro straps...
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 11:28am
Originally posted by jeffers

 
Then you come up against the PY can of worms.......



only if:

a) the club aren't using PY properly and locally adjusting where appropriate

b) you don't accept that other classes through years have reduced their minimum weight and PY corrects this over time
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 11:29am
MM- in reality wouldn't they seize in place?  I went through 2 cans of mclube and a lot of rubber hammer strokes to get my old 600 wings to dislodge.  
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 11:29am

No forestay attachment...this an oversight or is this not added at the factory?

Well spotted that man !    We are will in fact trying something different on the bow.  These are normally factory fitted at this stage of build off course.

Racing - Each CA will have its own approach to derivatives and if their choice works for them it is not wrong.  

The Blaze CA is more likely to separate derivatives, Fire owners will not really want to be blanketed by 30-50 odd Blazes etc on the line and so on.   So I expect shared meetings and common courses naturally but separate starts.

All will be members of the Blaze class association though.   The official names of each are Blaze-Fire, Blaze and Blaze-Halo.  However just the 'Fire', 'Blaze'  and 'Halo' logos are carried on the sails - this is to avoid any race-officer 'confusions'..... each will of course be handicapped on different numbers.  The sail numbers are all standard Blaze sequence ones, with all sails reflecting  the hull number as we do expect some to have more than one rig available.  

Wing width ... My own position has already been made clear.  But it would be foolish not to try new ideas occasionally.  Trialling something does not automatically mean adoption !  Like many of us    I've made mistakes in the past, including rejecting damn good ideas.  Experience teaches all of us, well OK OK most of us, to be more open minded.   However I must also say that the Blaze has always had an adjustable width wing system (with up to 4 widths possible)  .... one which most do choose to set to the maximum permitted. 

I mostly agree with kneewrecker on the 'standard' arguments.  The issue we are directly addressing or questioning is however this... "Are regular sailors prepared to sacrifice leverage for a weight reduction"    Because if they do we should consider the option....

The difference here is we are equipping 2 hulls for assessment - one a 'regular' minimum weight hull and wings and the other a light(er) hull and light(er) but narrower wings.  YOU will soon be able to try both versions on the same day, and in the same conditions - that is our aim.   We'll even come to your club if invited as well.   Then you can tell us about your experience with each .. and we really  want regular grass-roots club sailors involved.

Mike L.           
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 11:38am
Did you ever try sailing the boat with no wings at all?
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 11:48am
I like the idea of being able to swap the 3 rigs with one mast and one hull Mike.  it gives the new class a steady supply of used boats to buld from, so a relatively low entry point in terms of price.  

But one question, is the new reduced hull a prototype for weight reduction changes to the blaze class as a whole?  Or just a project to see how light you can make one?  
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 11:52am
Originally posted by Rupert

Did you ever try sailing the boat with no wings at all?

In the light stuff I used to sail my Blaze with the wings right in as this made roll tacking possible. 

You quickly need the wings as the wind builds though.
Paul
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 11:57am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

MM- in reality wouldn't they seize in place?  I went through 2 cans of mclube and a lot of rubber hammer strokes to get my old 600 wings to dislodge.  

You think my suggested velcro straps would seize?!  And the Blaze currently uses pins for rack adjustment; used every week as they are for boat-park-friendliness there's no problem with freezing.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting telescopic carbon wings, just one-piece ones that are the same width as most Blaze owners choose to use (2.40m-odd) which would so far as I can see weigh only a kilo or so more than the 1.90 carbon one-piece wings.  Lightweights need beam most of all!
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 12:00pm
The weight reduction in the Supernova class appears to have actually increased sales, so it can work, but will cause pain for a while. On the other hand, I can see it killing a class stone dead if done wrong.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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