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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: DINGHY SHOW - photos
    Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by In-a-Flap


If, of course, you are proposing a far more simplistic logic of ‘lots sold = good boat, few sold = bad boat’ then I am afraid we have reached a point where I will simply have to disagree with you.   

 

No, actually I was simply trying to work out if anyone was still buying them- that tends to be a good test of how much life a class has left in it, especially SMODs.

If it seems like a loaded question, well i guess it is... the Buzz was part of a family of boats that had one of the largest marketing spends in recent times (for recreational sailboats).  Yet despite that, it couldn't become a commercial success- the market found other options and a quick look through Y&Y Buzz pages gives the feeling the class has been stagnating ever since.


But rather than look to make incremental improvements during the necromancy - e.g. the Cirrus Blaze - another from the same original stable; or indeed the marginally lighter Vortex - now produced by White Formula, or the Byte with the CII which once produced by White Formula (small world hey), the wizards behind the new Buzz are allegedly rolling it out as per 1995... it failed once, in a market more receptive and less knowledgeable of this type of sailing, why on earth would a new punter invest in it again... even if it is cheap?

I guess if we knew that a number, even a small number, had been sold new, it might help to validate the 'it ain't broke, why fix it' mentality.     
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 3:42pm
Grf, the phantom may have modernised in the rig and sail choice but it never changed the weight of the boat, that was always 61kgs.
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 3:46pm
Also the phantom changes were slow and incremental. First plastic boats, then plastic sails then plastic rigs. Nothing changed overnight rendering the other 1000 boats immediately obsolete. That happened over a reasonably long time allowing existing owners the chance to keep up and therefore not totally disillusioned.

I bought my current boat in stages. Firstly the plastic sail on 998. I then upgraded the hull to 1194. A couple of years later I even went and bought a second hand carbon rig. It kept the cost manageable for me.
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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In-a-Flap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote In-a-Flap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 3:51pm

Hey, thanks for the link - there are some great Buzz photos there and I see that since the advent of a new and truly supportive supplier of parts and new boats, numbers competing in the Nationals are on the up again, which is fantastic news!

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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 3:55pm
Yep- I can see, 10 boats are now 11... was that extra boat a new one?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

Grf, the phantom may have modernised in the rig and sail choice but it never changed the weight of the boat, that was always 61kgs.


Really? Well I went to help my chum buy his first Phantom and that was a heavy old GRP tub, this new one he has I could lift on the trailer single handed, much lighter...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 4:48pm
Do you work out now?

An old poly tub will have absorbed water.

Edited by Bootscooter - 04 Mar 14 at 4:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 5:00pm
or was never built down to weight in the first place
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stu.B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 5:00pm
It's good to see lots of Buzz talk.
 
One thing iGRF forgot to mention, is that when he walked onto the Buzz stand and lifted the Buzz he was also lifting the steel stand that the Buzz was tied to!! Wink This will always make a boat heavy and also cause lots of drag if not removed!!
 
I agree that the Buzz may be a lot quicker built 20-25kgs lighter, but you then produce a new class that looks like an older class. The V3000 is a perfect example of this, 25kgs lighter, new sail plan, a credit to those involved in the changes, but you now have a new class of less than 10 boats. Weight was discussed by the Buzz Class before the new Buzz was built and the decision was to build the boat lighter and then add correctors if neccessary to get to the 90kgs hull weight, that being will the space frame and fittings included. This is very similar to the RS500 minimum weight and in reality they probably weigh the same.
 
A few examples of progress without getting lighter, the Merlin, the Blaze, the Phantom and even the Hartley Wayfarer, all very successful boats.
 
We are also looking at lighter parts for existing boats, i.e. carbon booms at an affordable price and a carbon pole. Carbon booms are already allowed actually.
 
We have highlighted the centreboard option, which has always been available but not publicised that well.
 
The Vantage Buzz was not available new before the weekend, so there hasn't been much time for orders to be placed, but I do know that there have been lots of enquiries about complete Buzzes and also hulls to replace old ones. In fact this is another alternative for getting an affordable new boat, buy a new hull and an old boat, then transfer the mast, sails, etc. Just an idea.
 
The Buzz is very popular in other parts of Europe, in fact the Eurocup is normally in Italy (Lake Iseo this year) and half the entries are normally Italian, a proper European event rather than the Brits on holiday!! Many new hulls and boats are likely to be sold abroad.
 
I hope the above addresses the many questions asked and iGRF, I do appreciate your comments really!!
 
Stuart.
 
 
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 14 at 5:06pm
Thumbs Up  Good stuff, and good luck!  Thanks for the open response.

Edited by yellowwelly - 04 Mar 14 at 5:06pm
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