Edition
Boats for sale
| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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| Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Hadron |
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L123456 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 30 Apr 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 500 |
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 Topic: HadronPosted: 07 Oct 13 at 2:12pm |
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The trouble with multiple rigs or reefing options is that you always seem to be on the wrong setting.
I suspect this was one of the reasons why windsurfing failed as you always seemed to be on the wrong rig .... With variable UK wind conditions having one rig that is versatile seems the best solutions; after all we only really sail in quite a narrow range.
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Rupert
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 2:14pm |
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The Lightning class is now running with a 2 part mast, and to use the smaller sail, you slot in a shorter bottom mast. Same as the radial, I suppose, except that it uses a tracked mast. The rules say that you choose your rig for an event and stick with it, but the 2 rigs are being sailed as the same boat, not as 2 classes with 2 winners. Though I'm sure there will be add on prizes for SR rig sailors (or maybe full rig if the SR wins the day). As we have sailors at the top of the fleet weighing anything from 7 stone to 14, I'd say it is a system which other classes could adopt without a huge amount of hassle or cost, and much benefit.I suspect in the case of the Lightning, most sailors will keep the full rig only, but as time goes on, more newcomers to the class will see the advantage of the SR rig, and things will change.
I could see the same thing working for the Hadron. I look at it and think - designed for big people. A well designed smaller sail could work well, as it has for the 100, even without the down wind turbo sail, as the hull looks pretty slippery. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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yellowwelly
Really should get out more
Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 2:25pm |
I don't find I'm on the wrong rig very often, but to get the point of knowing what you're rigging is pretty frustrating/expensive. My rule of thumb- big gaps on the big sails (they have the most wind range anyway) and smaller gaps on the small stuff. I have 5 sails I take to the coast, and another larger one (9.4) which is reserved for the lake: 8.4- rigs on a 460 mast 6.4, 5.9, 5.3 - rigs on a 430 mast 4.4 - rigs on a 400 mast All of these need to paired with the right board and fin combo.
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Dougaldog
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 05 Nov 10 Location: hamble Online Status: Offline Posts: 356 |
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Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 5:01pm |
No matter how in depth the testing, how hard the testers worked to be totally objective, if the reader already thinks that the concept behind the boat is flawed then that is what they will read! I had already done a test of the D-One and written in detail about it, so if you wanted to compare then all the information was there to hand, all the reader needed to do was to look across two consecutive mags rather than just in one and he'd have been in no doubt of the opinions that were being expressed. BUt what would you expect? The D-One, RS 100 and Halo are all good boats, with well thought out rigs and layouts on tried and tested hull forms. And yes, you could have added in the Vareo, after all, it is just another good boat that has created something of a niche in the market! (I was PRO for their Nationals last year and saw just how good a well sailed Vareo can be....). To be honest, as a tester, I'd be very surprised if today anything less than a 'good' boat made it all the way to market. But that said, you would be surprised that even in recent history, the odd dog still comes in under the fence. And yes, I highlighted one and got a huge amount of grief from a builder for expressing my views. All credit to the Editorial Team, for they asked if I was happy to stand by my comments - as long as I felt 100% able to justify them. Once they had this confirmation DSM published and lost 3 months worth of advertising revenue so I was a bit of a Jonah for a while. However, Devoti/Suntouched, RS and Mike Lyons/Cirrus were never a problem for the simple reason that the boats they sent you out in worked, did what they were supposed to and were a real pleasure to sail. It left you looking for ways of describing the boat without using the word 'wonderful' in every other sentence. As for the HALO, I did have some negatives... in breeze I wouldn't have wanted to have raced it, instead I'd just have wanted to play, reaching up and down as that would have been 'amazing'. But if that is the only downside to a boat, then things can't be all that bad with it. Come to think of it, the HALO is just what Jim C, Chris 249 and others are saying: in that, everything stays the same apart from the mast and sail, so it is that step towards a multiple rig system. The idea has so much in the way of merit, yet has still to really take off here. But back to the Hadron - I would hope that the design philosophy set out by Keith Callaghan is good enough to offer a great sail across the normally accepted wind range.... fun yet manageable. D
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Dougal H
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yellowwelly
Really should get out more
Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 5:15pm |
But recent experience with the RS100 shows us that dinghy sailors just can't cope with the concept either, even those who would class themselves as forward thinking enough to try a new class out. I had no issues if someone wanted to flip their rig in the RS100s in the early days, and from asking around, didn't feel that I was particularly a minority view, although some wanted a specific event rule in the NOR to prevent lunchtime switches which seemed liked the sensible middle ground. Not that would have bothered me personally either... better to get more folks out there maximising their time on the water, rather than restrict them with rules and regs that mean they can't change up or down. But for whatever reason, the 'choose your weapons' approach lost favour, a lot of the 10.2 sailors have buggered off and now you have the mess being highlighted in the other thread with two world champions for a class which can't even muster 40 on the start line- nevermind the mess that's gone hand-in-hand with PY racing at club level. At the time of your reviews I thought the multiple rigs was a major positive (other forum members disagreed and said it would lead to chaos and lack of clarity). I guess they were right...
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RS400atC
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Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 6:12pm |
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I'm surprised we can get a thread discussing reefing on dinghies for over a page without mentioning the RS600.
That seemed to work well, but who uses it? Most people seem to let the stump seize into the mast. I suppose ideally you'd have a system where you could shrink the mast without dropping it. I did a season or two sailing in a small keelboat where the helm was keen to try reefing up wind in F5 as we were often lighter than the others. Even with a really slick system for getting the reef out at the windward mark it rarely paid. These days sails flatten so much so easily it really is less of an issue. Skiffs may be the exception, but I suspect their heavy weather rig probably gives a sail area to righting power figure that is not small anyway? i.e. they just carry extra sail in light air compared to anything else. |
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blaze720
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Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 6:28pm |
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Halo is useful for broad comparisons only but is very different .... it is different as it was specifically developed for larger guys. You NEED to be 95+kg to get on with this version of the Blaze across the full wind range and there is little compromise in it for 'lightweights' much below that weight. (Dougaldog - this one is still not really for the likes of you and me - only for smiles on lighter days and for demos !)
Most rigs were brought initially by larger Blaze regulars as an occasional option rig - making those light wind days a tad more challenging. The limiting factor was not base demand at all but that it required second (longer) mast - and obviously a much greater 'entry' price of course. This limited 'take up' in the first year to just a few dozen rigs and a trickle thereafter. Anyway we listened to the hard core Halo enthusiasts and 'would-be' future Halo owners and have very recently come up with a revised version we think might just get Halo to 'critical mass' now. (Photos ? I'll post some soon) This HALO rig is visually very similar to the original one and the sail is also around 11.5m - the critical difference is it now sits on a STANDARD Blaze mast.... but the mast is set much more vertically than for the Blaze sail and the sail has a slightly more pronounced 'Square head'. This cuts the cost of getting into Halo sailing for those interested by nearly 60% and means there is no need to have to store the 'other' mast - an annoying problem for some I am told. The supply of the original version is maintained for as long as is wanted and both can race together.... I think some on the forum get a bit bogged down with the idea of alternative rigs ... it is an alien concept to some perhaps. If there is demand though and more people get more out of their sailing, or it turns out a significant group need a smaller (or larger) rig, then I see no problem myself. If the demand from those sailing 100's for example is for a couple of rig options then I think RS would be crazy not to look at it and support a degree of choice. .... but then again I 'defected' for nearly 16 years years from the dinghy 'bubble' to the anti-matter world of boards (and GRF !) a couple of decades back where choice was wide. In summary I don't think these things (and sail areas) have to be mutually exclusive.. Mike L. |
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Dougaldog
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 05 Nov 10 Location: hamble Online Status: Offline Posts: 356 |
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Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 7:38pm |
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HI Mike...I'm now a 'comfortable 95 kgs so the Halo would fit in well with my requirements. If there is a chance of 'borrowing' one of the sails I'll ask Reg at Netley if I can use his boat for an afternoon and give it a go - I can then do a useful comparison with the initial HALO concept!
But the idea of the 'big rig' was and still is attractive - the North sail I tried when the lake was still half frozen was a very nice sail - in fact, the whole rig just looked 'right'! D
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Dougal H
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blaze720
Really should get out more
Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 8:54pm |
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Hi Dougaldog ...
We are doing final design snagging with North on H.2 at present - in fact Charlie C. is coming up tomorrow for another look. As soon as we 'sign it off' in the next week or three I'll make direct contact about a loan sail or come up here again and have a go at BSC - I'd like you to try Icon sometime as well ... I'll take a couple of photos tomorrow for posting here anyway ....... It looks more 'D1' than previous North version but a bit like the initial Hyde one and is designed to blade off semi-automatically of course. You will plane up-wind for sure if you have the weight ! Mike L. |
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yellowwelly
Really should get out more
Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Posted: 07 Oct 13 at 9:08pm |
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new thread when you want to start talking about it Mike... one to try for sure!
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