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winging it View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dinghy Show
    Posted: 03 Feb 13 at 6:42pm
Some able bodied people do sail Challenger - class events are open to anyone.  But they are not very manoeuvrable, need quite a lot of water to live up to their potential and are dog slow in light winds.
the same, but different...

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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 13 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

It has been the case since WW2 that new designs come along, either fail to sell or are fashionable for a few years, the most successful endure as classes for varying numbers of decades.
For every eclipsed SMOD there are 10 forgotten classes from the 60's etc.
That's one issue, the other is trimarans.
Why don't people sail them?
Why don't able bodied people have a go in Challengers?

I can only guess what other people think, but I have never really been drawn to multihulls(except 50ft plus..). The increase in straightline speed is fun, but the size and relatively slow tacking takes the edge off it. Then there is the shoreside hassle and unsuitability for smaller venues.

I don't buy the 'Weta does not capsize' bit completely, I reckon if you raced them hard in the kind of sea conditions where the better RS400 sailors are at risk of capsizing, tri's would capsize too, as indeed the cats do. People will always push limits racing, then you just have to get unlucky with a wave.

PS how can anyone race level with both RS600's and RS400's? One is a lot quicker than the other!


Depends on the sailors, I guess?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 13 at 2:20pm
It has been the case since WW2 that new designs come along, either fail to sell or are fashionable for a few years, the most successful endure as classes for varying numbers of decades.
For every eclipsed SMOD there are 10 forgotten classes from the 60's etc.
That's one issue, the other is trimarans.
Why don't people sail them?
Why don't able bodied people have a go in Challengers?

I can only guess what other people think, but I have never really been drawn to multihulls(except 50ft plus..). The increase in straightline speed is fun, but the size and relatively slow tacking takes the edge off it. Then there is the shoreside hassle and unsuitability for smaller venues.

I don't buy the 'Weta does not capsize' bit completely, I reckon if you raced them hard in the kind of sea conditions where the better RS400 sailors are at risk of capsizing, tri's would capsize too, as indeed the cats do. People will always push limits racing, then you just have to get unlucky with a wave.

PS how can anyone race level with both RS600's and RS400's? One is a lot quicker than the other!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 13 at 1:51pm
Now be that all true? The Weta is the development we are looking for......Isn't it young Fuller? Or, as I suspect, it may not be sexy enough for some of us........
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wetabix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 13 at 1:39pm
Friends, let me me expand upon my point about 'orphaned' classes. In about 1995 I bought a Phantom. In those days the Phantom was attempting to morph from an often home-built wooden boat into a grp manufacturer's one design. It had a real class association run by real Phantom sailors and a viable racing circuit that attracted 30 odd boats to the national  championships. Almost immediately it was assailed by the new Manufacturers' One Designs - the Blaze, the Laser eps, the RS300, the Vortex - all of which seemed capable of killing the Phantom or at least bankrupting its builder. But the big manufacturers who forced these boats onto the market to the detriment of existing classes have subsequently dropped most of them, leaving their owners to form a class association and in some cases find another builder. These boats are probably excellent boats and some may even be thriving as independent classes (in the case of the Blaze, after a substantial redesign of the rig) but all must feel let down by their original manufacturer and few can get 70 or 80 boats to their nationals as the Phantom can. And now we have the RS100 and D-One.

Regrettably I am no longer fit enough to sail a Phantom competitively so I have bought a rather similar boat with stabilisers - a Weta. It is quite a lot faster round a triangular racecourse than a Phantom (or an RS100)  and I would guess it's a bit faster than a D-One - it certainly has a lower PN.  I have capsized once in three years and the main problem with the boat is that it requires so little physical effort that you get cold.  It is true that there is no class racing but where I live there is no class racing for any single-hander within 120 miles. It does not have an schrs rating (because it is not a catamaran) but it does have a published PN which it may or may not be capable of sailing to and it is perfectly capable of mixing it with monohulls (as is the other trimaran - the Challenger). At our club I sail pretty much level with National 18s, RS400s and RS600s. 

In my Phantom I used to say that 'when the kites come out, I go in' but in my Weta I simply furl the jib and sail alongside my grandchildren on their kiteboards.  In very light winds it struggles to sail to its handicap but it is not slow and will usually finish at least level with the Phantoms.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 13 at 8:41pm
I have your name tattooed on my left buttock as well. On my right buttock it says, "Inventor of the............(left blank). 

My mother is 93 and hopes to stay alive long enough to witness the completion of the Buxton Crescent restoration. I know how she feels.........  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 13 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by tick

but when you applied your giant intellect to the problem the result was less than satisfactory. Why then do you think that there are other mere mortals capable of improving the wheel?


Have you ever heard of AYRS? It's a bunch of nutters that hold meetings at Weymouth speed week, most of them eccentrics (Some friends have called me that when I first showed them kitesurfing) anyway, they try, all the time, there's one in this latest edition of Catalyst their monthly journal it's called Messenger made of wood, you'd like it, lean design, fascinating project, probably not my cup of tea, but I love anything that's an original concept and some bod has locked himself away in a room trying to make it work, most don't but every now and then one pops up and suddenly sailboats do close to seventy miles an hour.

I'm not done yet, one day this bloody slump will be over, my entrepreneurial mill will start churning again and I'll be back in the money, then see. The V3 will work on the sort of water you lot like, then you'll have to take that photo out of your underpants to show your grandchildren and tell them you knew me.
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tick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 13 at 7:55pm
You know, young Fuller, the problem is that nothing can be new. When some bugger invented the microchip getting rid of all those valves and condensers it opened up a world of innovation enabling a host of inventions and development. What development can actually be made when you have a wind driven thing you sit on? Materials improve and they in turn effect manufacturing and performance but nothing strides forward like the invention of the internal combustion engine or Mac Donalds. I thought wing sails might be a good idea but they have not been enthusiastically adopted so far. The trouble is that you have moving air above you and sloshy stuff below you, in-between you have  a plank to sit on. If the air above you creates to much power the plank falls over and you get wet, so you make the plank wider and it goes slower........Now I have the greatest admiration for you Graeme (may I call you that?) and I keep a photograph of you sewn into my underwear but when you applied your giant intellect to the problem the result was less than satisfactory. Why then do you think that there are other mere mortals capable of improving the wheel?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote robin34024 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 13 at 7:25pm
I read ''several manufacturers will be exhibiting wind-propelled boats'', and for a moment had crazy visions of a hull with a wind turbine on it... then i remembered that dinghy's are wind powered :/
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 13 at 7:21pm
Shall I go and give up one precious sailing pass to just look at boats... Erm, in a word, no.

As for the Weta - great price when launched, reasonable spec but not Gucci for no reason, quick, simple, accessible- can take a kid or Doris out when it's sunny and warm, can hitch up and wouldn't look out place on the back of Saloon headed to a French family campsite near some good wine regions.... what's not to like? Oh yes, no one else sails them and worse than that, as a multihull they're even banned from the some of the god forsaken handicap events that the D-One boys have stencilled out a circuit from and the cat sailors (jet skiers without the spends for petrol) are very snooty about tris too, so AIUI, no SCHRS allocation. It's so f*cked from every angle it's airtight.....
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