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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Farr 3.7
    Posted: 18 Feb 16 at 4:04pm
don't fireflies use their CA purchasing power to negotiate sail discounts?

I know the 300 boys got the price down by a campaign and project alongside RS.

The D-Zero class association membership was free with a new boat

You can join our club and get access to race-ready lasers, I think there's a nominal charter fee, then participate in the best one design racing at club level in our region... if you don't mind Lasers that is.  

'packages' are on offer, even if they don't have the spit and polish of other sports marketing.  What is lacking in a central resource advertising all of this, and frankly, enough folks with enough time to participate in it anyway.  

Point to get this back on topic, SFW if the 3.7 doesn't appeal Aero Mum or Radial Kid... at least this gives other lighter folks something aspirational to sail away from the normal singlehanded hiking dross that's out there.  If only the Contender would lighten the payload for us fatties too; why would anyone buy such a stodgy boat unless they have sea breeze and waves on tap?


Edited by turnturtle - 18 Feb 16 at 4:12pm
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 16 at 5:38pm

I think you may have misunderstood the Farr 3.7's proposition ....

I don't think so.  Not at all .... The points made were in reference to GRF's suggestion (quoted) about bundling in lessons.  The view being expressed assumes the Farr 3.7 is not a raw beginners boat  - no trapeze one would be imo.   
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 16 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

How much money do you think we (I) have spend then iGRF? I'd love (honestly) to hear some of you marketing wisdom. Or when you say 'they are all doing it wrong', are actually saying you believe the boats are wrong, and not the marketing etc...?

Time is money Jack, time is money, I guess it's perception, the last racing class I set into marketing including producing a leaflet and trolling it around the dinghy show in or around 2007 was our Kona One Design, now we sold fifty that year and it was the best selling board, but we gave it up as a waste of time and effort.

So my perception was that you might have done more than that since I've seen lots about it and have considered it on more than one occasion, now I'm not a normal punter anyway so not a good example. But it's a good boat, you've got a proper builder now and I don't understand why the buggers aren't buying in their droves. I haven't even looked to see if the PY is to blame it does seem to be a driving factor sadly.

As to how I'd do it, market it semi complete, hull only, then differing rig options from various suppliers, offer finance, offer trade in, do a deal with a leasing company, offer affiliate schemes, do a deal for demo boat owners but they must be up for letting folk come and try them out, then give them a commission on any subsequent sales.

I wasn't talking about this as a vehicle to sell to newcomers, that was just a red herring I got misdirected to by my muddle brain, sorry for the confusion.

What's needed is a marketing organisation for all the independent suppliers, but, they'd have to pass certain criterion like being able to deliver, which I doubt any could.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 16 at 9:52pm
TT, Firefly sails now appear to cost roughly the same as a small country. It used to be the case, however.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posts: 9 		Post Options Post Options   Quote BenG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 16 at 8:56am
I think the Firefly sails are pretty well priced to be honest Rupert...

FF (through the Class Association with Discount) £505
Miracle (P&B) £731 main+jib
Mirror (P&B) £720 main+jib
RS Feva £677 main+jib
Enterprise £1079
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 16 at 9:06am
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

How much money do you think we (I) have spend then iGRF? I'd love (honestly) to hear some of you marketing wisdom. Or when you say 'they are all doing it wrong', are actually saying you believe the boats are wrong, and not the marketing etc...?

Time is money Jack, time is money, I guess it's perception, the last racing class I set into marketing including producing a leaflet and trolling it around the dinghy show in or around 2007 was our Kona One Design, now we sold fifty that year and it was the best selling board, but we gave it up as a waste of time and effort.

So my perception was that you might have done more than that since I've seen lots about it and have considered it on more than one occasion, now I'm not a normal punter anyway so not a good example. But it's a good boat, you've got a proper builder now and I don't understand why the buggers aren't buying in their droves. I haven't even looked to see if the PY is to blame it does seem to be a driving factor sadly.

As to how I'd do it, market it semi complete, hull only, then differing rig options from various suppliers, offer finance, offer trade in, do a deal with a leasing company, offer affiliate schemes, do a deal for demo boat owners but they must be up for letting folk come and try them out, then give them a commission on any subsequent sales.

I wasn't talking about this as a vehicle to sell to newcomers, that was just a red herring I got misdirected to by my muddle brain, sorry for the confusion.

What's needed is a marketing organisation for all the independent suppliers, but, they'd have to pass certain criterion like being able to deliver, which I doubt any could.

All those extras are overheads which have to be paid for.
Not a great idea when most of your customers just want to buy a boat, they already have everything else they need.

I've noticed that commercialisation, affiliation, marketing and sponsorship never seem to make life cheaper or better for the competitors? Mostly just creates non-jobs at our expense.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 16 at 9:37am
Originally posted by BenG

I think the Firefly sails are pretty well priced to be honest Rupert...
FF (through the Class Association with Discount) £505
Miracle (P&B) £731 main+jib
<span style="line-height: 16.8px;">Mirror (P&B) £720 main+jib</span>
<span style="line-height: 16.8px;">RS Feva £677 main+jib</span>
<span style="line-height: 16.8px;">Enterprise £1079</span>


Point taken, all sails are a scary price, really, and I'm getting old!
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 16 at 10:06am
Originally posted by RS400atC


I've noticed that commercialisation, affiliation, marketing and sponsorship never seem to make life cheaper or better for the competitors? Mostly just creates non-jobs at our expense.


That's because you're typical of the current market demographic, tight, mean spirited, cynical, want the earth, don't want to pay for it.

What is needed for this market to flourish is a fresh influx of normal healthy young enthusiastic spendthrifts, don't mind paying if they see something they want and appreciate a good product. Then if there were profit in the supply chain, you could have weekly demo's of new boats, lots of innovation and choice, more events, more opportunity for young sailors.

But no we don't want all that do we, we want to have a long, slow, at minimal margin for anyone in the supply chain, tell people they have to sail what we already sail, we wouldn't want our boat to depreciate would we and we certainly don't want any new fangled things we might not understand but would make our 1960's junkpile totally obsolete and if one were to appear we're lucky we have our luddite friends on the PYAG in the pocket of existing suppliers, to make sure it never gets traction.
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 16 at 10:09am
Originally posted by RS400atC

All those extras are overheads which have to be paid for.
Not a great idea when most of your customers just want to buy a boat, they already have everything else they need.

People do like their bundles though. You and I may know that there ain't no such thing as a free lunch, but the illusion of one is nearly always welcomed.
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Posts: 893 		Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 16 at 11:08am
Originally posted by iGRF


 ...we have our luddite friends on the PYAG in the pocket of existing suppliers.... 

Proof please...


Edited by chrisg - 19 Feb 16 at 11:09am
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