Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Oli ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 23 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1020 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 06 Aug 19 at 8:03am |
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asking all.... in a pursuit race what would you do if being the faster boat and just seconds from taking the lead from the slowest boat and seconds from the finish?
do you sail around them? or attack? or in the slower boat and trying to retain the lead with just seconds to go to the finish? do you accept they sail around or do you defend?
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423zero ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420 |
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Oli, I would sail my correct course in the slow boat, deliberately manoeuvring to prevent overtaking boat from getting past is unsportsmanlike.
Edited by 423zero - 06 Aug 19 at 9:03am |
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You can ask, but it's really very black and white. See bold above. Superior speed around the course, including ability to roll tack, angles of sail etc. are what the handicap is formulated to level out (it doesn't always do it well, but that's what you sign up for). Using your boat strengths to sail as fast as possible around the course is the aim of the game. Using the attributes of your boat to repeatedly slow another boat is not not accounted for in the handicap. The premise of handicaps specifically assumes that boats racing are trying to complete the course in the shortest time as possible, which is subtly different to fleet racing. There is a very clear difference.
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True... and others would then be pretty peeved off when someone engaged them in a one sided match race!
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CT249 ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
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Why? It's something that seems to happen a lot in yacht racing and I've never heard of anyone calling it unsportsmanlike. It's pretty much accepted that in yachts and development classes, you can hold someone up in conditions where their boat is faster than yours, so you can stay with them until you encounter the conditions that favour your boat. |
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PeterG ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 822 |
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In general, I can't see a pursuit race as being place to try and race other boats down the fleet. However, if a slower boat were to try and make it difficult for a faster boat to pass as you suggest I wouldn't really have much of a problem. This is the reverse of what we've been talking about. It's relatively easy for a fast boat to sail a slow boat down the fleet, it's much more difficult for a slow boat to stop a fast one sailing through. If they have the skill to do it they probably deserve to finish in front.
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Peter
Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
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Every action you take should be to get your boat to the finish as quick as possible. Anything outside that is unsporting. In terms of the racing rules of sailing I wouldn't go as far as saying you should always sail your proper course. As getting out to one side of a pack of boats to get clear air so you can get to the finish quicker is legitimate. I think Case 78 is what's relevant here and I think it was a big mistake to include handicap and rated events in that case. |
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CT249 ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
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Again, we may be just coming from different backgrounds. I've done a fair bit of racing in yachts under rating rules where there is no premise that boats are trying to complete the course in the shortest possible time; they compete using strategy and boat-on-boat tactics against nearby craft, and no one complains. For example, when the Admiral's Cup was pretty much the world's top offshore regatta it seems to have been perfectly acceptable for a team's big boat to give dirty air to the smaller boats of the other teams. When racing in the offshore nationals on one of the UK's top boats it was considered perfectly reasonable to use our boat's ability to go slow and high and lee bow other boats to force them to tack away. Other boats did the same sort of thing and no one complained - the use of each boat's strengths for tactical advantage is seen as an inherent and unavoidable part of the game. Without it, much of the fascination would be lost. Either all such yachties are dirty rotten scoundrels, or this is an issue that is open to reasonable but differing views. Please note that I personally have never close covered a slower boat as the OP mentioned; I prefer to sail clean which is why I've never ever been DSQd in my life (apart from the other day, when some of us followed an incorrect course diagram drawn by a class official who was involved in running the event). The fact that I am not condemning their actions does not mean that I do the same sort of thing. I'm just not sure that I can condemn the OP's actions as clearly as some have done, nor have I ever seen anything that says that handicaps assume boats are trying to complete the course as fast as possible without using boat-on-boat tactics.
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rich96 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 20 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 596 |
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In a pursuit race near the finish ? I cant believe that you'd wave through a quicker boat on the line ? A pursuit race is totally different from the original topic of this thread If the answer to the original question (should you slow up a slower boat in a club series to win it - despite ruining both of your races) is anything other than 'I'm embarrassed and wont do it again' I think you'd have to look very hard at why you are club racing At our club (which is of a high standard generally and well attended) people would laugh at you I'm afraid |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Its difficult though. There's the two boats of very similar performance scenario and the one design results extracted from handicap racing scenario. Whilst I'm not comfortable with A Class via Optimist say, I think pragmatically there are fewer problems caused by having the case apply to everything than there are in attempting to draw a firm boundary where none can exist. |
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