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Modern symmetric two-hander?

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iiiiitick View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Oct 15 at 10:03am
Would a light, wide, small rig boat not have other problems? Incidentally I saw a caravan being reversed into a driveway by remote control. It had an electric motor fixed to the jockey wheel. Sit on the prom and the boat drives up on it's own.

I wish people would stop being pointlessly rude.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 15 at 11:05am
Originally posted by iiiiitick

It had an electric motor fixed to the jockey wheel.

The caravan movers I've seen (which are surprisingly fun to operate) have a pair of electric motors which drive on the main wheels, and each wheel can be moved forward or back independently so very very manouverable. I'm not sure how much use the jockey wheel type would be on anything but the flattest of surfaces.

But I hate to think how much a device with sufficient corrosion resistance to live on a beach would cost - or what sort of maintenance regime would be necessary to last more than a few months in the average club environment. Not to mention what the chances of receiving that much maintenance would be.

I sailed off a shingle beach with groynes once, and vowed never to do it again. Our ancestors built little harbours all round the country to avoid having to launch and retrieve boats on open beaches in shorebreaks, and we should take advantage of their foresight. Its probably inevitable that a boat to survive on shingle beaches will be ridiculously overbuilt by any other standards. Thermoplastic is probably ideal for the job...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 15 at 11:38am
Weight is a really important factor and tends to put people off using boats. When I see Wayfarers on trolleys at our club I know they will not be going out much. Just too d*** hard at the end of the day.

I think it was JimC who said that a light boat is a joy from the moment you take it out to the moment you put it back. This is how I feel.

However even light boats are actually quite large pieces of sporting equipment. Though I have never sailed one I expect that picking up a Tasar and turning it over is not that easy unless you have a nice piece of smooth grass and space. Things like Merlins are probably more difficult as the shape is just hard to hold onto. So many times with things it's not just the weight but the shape as well when handling them.

With the bigger boats like Wayfarers it is probably really dangerous handling them without a lot of help. Steep slopes, unbraked trolleys and heavy boats are painful. I'm lucky to be in one piece.

So back to the modern symetric two hander. Many boats are separable, tenders, canoes and kayaks and tandem sailboards come to mind.

What I'd like is a boat like the Tasar, a bit more stable but about the same weight which can be broken down for storage and maintenance. Three or more pieces of boat each weighing 25kg or so would be managable. I have no usable garden so they would have be easily stacked and stored.

A lot of thought has been given to all sorts of lifting equipment, in the dinghy world we are still using trolley technology from the age of horse drawn transport. There has got to be room for a really radical solution.

I really like Chris' classical post, made me smile.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SUGmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 15 at 12:08pm
Having never seen one in the flesh but admired it from photos I can't help thinking that the developers of the X1 Riverboat missed a trick by making it sort of a hiking 505 and with its premium price tag.

If the Merlin's 14ft and maybe now has been developed into a light person's boat maybe the X1 would have been better as a 15ft symmetric, sort of a modern Albacore with kite (not that Alb's are cheap but modern design and technology and all that)

Or maybe a redesigned from the ground up Kestrel?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 15 at 12:41pm
Things like Merlins are probably more difficult as the shape is just hard to hold onto. So many times with things it's not just the weight but the shape as well when handling them.

Riv
Actually getting a Merlin off the trolley and turned over on its side is dead easy, can be managed by one person and not a superman either! I have a bad back that flips out for no discernable reason (which is one good reason to sail the Merlin as I can stretch out). The width makes it easy to lift and when she is on her side, she stays in position.

Getting back on the trolley singlehanded is slightly more problematic but nothing that cannot be solved by a rope through a pulley attached to a fixed point behind the stern which allows you to lift the bow up while pulling the trolley under. Much easier with a body to push the trolley under but crew's are never around when needed!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 15 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by SUGmeister

...I can't help thinking that the developers of the X1 Riverboat missed a trick...

Dunno. I can see a niche for a modern confined water boat. Not a very big niche, but maybe it doesn't need to be if no-one is planning to get rich on it. The Raters have gone on for over a hundred years with out getting much above 20 boats active at a time. If it serves a purpose that's fine.

Frankly what I don't see is a place for a fast modern pole kite boat. A modern fast boat has no use for a pole kite, with the possible exception of something sailed exclusively on very confined waters, in which case...

Edited by JimC - 29 Oct 15 at 12:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 15 at 1:02pm
Point of information

The Merlin has I believe a MINIMUM class weight of 98kg without rig and possibly its rudder as well.  Icon has always had a target production hull weight of 75kg.   I know nothing of the hull  GRF appears to have access to, but I simply cannot believe it is heavier than any Merlin one ... it should of course be many many kg's lighter.   The original Icon hulls were all vinylester so should have no water take-up problems either - so it might just be worth weighing it ! .... and the Merlin  Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 15 at 1:32pm
Mike

You are correct. 98kg for the Merlin - this does not include the rudder but does include the centreboard and all rig string and pulleys excluding the shrouds, mast, boom and spinnaker poles.

While many recent boats have carbon fibre decks and front buoyancy tanks, all will have correctors to bring them up to the minimum weight. Typically a modern Winder will have 15-20kg of correctors. As these are placed around the centreboard, it makes the ends lighter and this may well be what iGRF is experiencing.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 15 at 2:35pm
Or maybe the bandit Merlin GRF always talks about has been cheeky with the corrector weights....I suspect not mind, its probably his age playing tricks with him!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cad99uk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 15 at 2:38pm
So any news on the Rondar 'Icon'.
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