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andymck View Drop Down
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Posts: 397 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Icon Class Association
    Posted: 22 May 13 at 1:23am
Originally posted by blaze720

MartinOur strop allows about 200mm of travel only... fixed and central should be fine but we think it better with limited travel... As supplied the Devoti built ones had a strop that allowed best part of  900-1000mm !  No real problem for owners and 10 minutes to sort but it does need doing. The KEY thing to master upwind is the use of the dangle pole ... the N12 guys will tell you it does not work .. well it does maybe because the rig is so different on Icon and we designed it in from the beginning with a proportionately larger jib.  Once the basics are mastered the crew can 'play' the 'down pressure' upwind - they seem to work best when they apply pressure to the point where the main is just beginning to backwind off the jib then ease it a tad.  It means as I work the mainsheet pressure the crew can match it on the fly ... 'blowing' to the point where I will start to ease the main upwind ?  Crew matches the slot on the 'fly' ... try it !     All other angles ditto. Mike L.PS - Any plans to visit the 'tropics' that we bask in down here in the near future ? 



Actually the N12 guys believe the jib cars are wrong, hence you need to use the pole to compensate. I guess using a lateral car and pole upwind gives a greater degree of freedom, but more complex. It may be the next step in pole usage, guess if it is you will see it on a N12 soon.
Andy Mck
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 13 at 8:12am
Originally posted by andymck

Actually the N12 guys believe the jib cars are wrong, hence you need to use the pole to compensate.

Must admit that would be my conclusion, but another argument would be: "since you want the dangly pole anyway, you may as well use it instead of full jib adjustment upwind to save a few fittings".
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scotsfinn View Drop Down
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Posts: 284 		Post Options Post Options   Quote scotsfinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 13 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by The Moo

Was on business in Scotland today and we went back to the airport via Largs as we had a bit of time on our hand before our return flight. Presumably that was Scotsfinn's ICON in the sailing club dinghy park? Lovely colour and it looked b****y georgeous even with its cover on.

Would have been good sailing there today. 21c and blowing a bit.
 
It's always that weather in Scotland. And thanks yes the boat looks great ...... goes pretty well in the hands of a good helm .... pity I'm not one!!!!  LOL
 
Cheers
Largs Sailing Club. D-Zero GBR 57, B14 744
www.blueseaconsultingllp.com
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 13 at 3:57pm
Actually the N12 guys believe the jib cars are wrong, hence you need to use the pole to compensate. I guess using a lateral car and pole upwind gives a greater degree of freedom, but more complex. It may be the next step in pole usage, guess if it is you will see it on a N12 soon.

Production boats have them 'fore-aft' .. so as conventional as you like.  The same applies though as any fixed sheeting position is set-up on the basis that the main is mostly sheeted to a standard position with default sail twist... whenever this is not true then the static jib sheet position cannot easily compliment the main on the fly.  Only a crew dynamically adjusting it can do that - as you can with the dangle pole approach.

Doing this can compensate if the position was 'wrong' but you may be assuming 'wrong'  with 'all other things being equal .. ' and for all the time there !  .... quite a big assumption.   I adjust the mainsail kicker many times in a race as well of course for example.

Whichever way you orientate your jib track the dangle pole method works very effectively to optimise things once the crew gets a bit of experience ...

Mike L.

PS - The N12s are naturally very welcome to 'have a go' anytime !!



Edited by blaze720 - 22 May 13 at 3:59pm
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 13 at 4:26pm
Aha since you're about, word over on the Fireball thread, that there was a prototype Icon kicking around looking for a nice home and a proper spinnakered redesign, any truth in that?
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 13 at 10:19am
Hi Greame

I'm reluctant to spoil a great rumour with the facts ....   but I'm always happy to pour petrol on your BBQ - not good for the food though but entertaining enough.

In Oz the NS14s have a 'sister' class (MG14) that uses the same hull but with added asymetric and single wire.    But No - Icon is following in the NS and Tasar (and N12 and even Enterprise) footprints ...

The only 'truth' we'll admit to is that an early Icon prototype is being used as 'doner' hull as part of the development of another very different boat  - heavily modified to test out some rig ideas.... er .... I'm giving too much away now   Wink

Mike L.
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 13 at 10:25am
Mike what happened to Toby's NS14 hull?
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 13 at 10:26am
[QUOTE=blaze720] I'm giving t
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 13 at 12:07pm
Pondmonkey - 

 Toby's NS had a short life !  .. and made the ultimate sacrifice - We cut it up to review the method of contruction and reinforcement  as the NS's proved both very tough and light.  It saved us some of the otherwise itterative development Icon hulls and time ....  The other NS hull was heavily modified with plate case added etc and we later tested rigs on  it ... and is now having a quiet retirement...

Greame -

You are absolutely right ... So I'll hang my head in shame for now then... But why on earth would we 'give' you a hull to ritually abuse ?      We've seen how you can turn perfectly good and useful materials into well .... er  ....  Once described to me by someone who has a much closer knowledge of that 'beast' as a the 'lovechild of a fishing smack and a pedallo'   Best use of spinnaker there would be as its burial shroud !  Wink ... only teasing.

Mike L.
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scotsfinn View Drop Down
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Posts: 284 		Post Options Post Options   Quote scotsfinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 13 at 9:20pm
Who was out this weekend in an Icon. 
We had 12kts, flat sea and 18C. Boat went like a rocket. Just fantastic boat speed, acceleration and response. Keep it flat though or you ARE slow.
Largs Sailing Club. D-Zero GBR 57, B14 744
www.blueseaconsultingllp.com
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