New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: The new Laser b**tard
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

The new Laser b**tard
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 14>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
PeterG View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 12 Jan 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 822 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The new Laser b**tard
    Posted: 18 Jan 13 at 1:04pm
The total numbers aren't relevant anyway.  What matters is that nothing is coming forward to supersede it, despite there being many attempts.

I think the total numbers are relevant there - the total numbers are a big reason why it goes on being successful - if you want to be able to go to pretty much any club in the country and do class racing then sail a Laser, that's one of the great attractions and one that's it's very, very hard for a new class to compete with.

4000 boats is not a lot world wide, when you take out the ones used in regattas and ones owned by national sailing federations.

4000 boats per year is a very large number. That is a lot more than most classes could dream of having in their entire lifespan.
Peter
Ex Cont 707
Ex Laser 189635
DY 59
Back to Top
tick View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 16 Nov 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 223 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 13 at 1:11pm
I am not entirely sure of my facts here but did Laser not have a good start over other "modern" boats. I bet they looked very cool when compared with a wooden Solo, probably cheaper as well. Did not Laser come in with a bang and a major manufacturer to support it? It must have been a far cry when compared with someone knocking out hulls in an old chicken shed and looking for market share. Once established.....

I had a 1970's TVR in the 1970's, very nice but built in a shed. For the same money I could have had an MGB.....I chose the TVR but more people chose the MGB.
Back to Top
robin34024 View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 03 Jan 12
Location: Lincoln
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 116 		Post Options Post Options   Quote robin34024 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 13 at 3:09pm
I am not entirely sure of my facts here but did Laser not have a good start over other "modern" boats. I bet they looked very cool when compared with a wooden Solo, probably cheaper as well. Did not Laser come in with a bang and a major manufacturer to support it?

exactly how i feel. the laser was designed in 1969, just 13 years after the enterprise, and far cheaper and higher in performance than a lot of other boats of the time. this created a class, which meant that more and more people joined in for racing. as time went on, however, the laser has become outdated, and unlike other 'one design' classes, where little changes are made over time, the laser has been left as a strict one design, essentially the same as it was in 1969. now i think that very few people race lasers competitively because of the merits of the boat, just fpr the huge class it has grown.
Back to Top
Bootscooter View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 May 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 13 at 3:20pm
I hope it doesn't change, tbh.
Because (other than the XD upgrade) it has stayed essential the same throughout it's life, it is this that is a major contributor to it's longevity.
Don't get me wrong - I really don't like the boat... love the racing, hate the boat, so what I want to see is a new design, similar in ethos but without it's faults and with many of the improvements suggested here built in to it.  I want this boat to be vigerously marketed, priced considerably lowerm and with massive constructor support to establish a successful circuit.  I want a consistantly well built product that is backed up with an excellent customer-service dept.  I want this to be a boat that will make all the club racing laser sailors that only continue to persist with the thing because it's the only single-handed class racing available, decide that they should by the better, faster, more comfortable alternative, because there's a deal where the 1st 5/6 at any club get a significant discount.
 
Hurry up Steve!!!! LOL
Back to Top
bustinben View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 15 Oct 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 13 at 3:28pm
Personally, I view its shortcomings as its strengths.  It's a total pig to get round the course at decent speed in the breeze, the rudder doesn't work very well, it's hard to tack and gybe with any elegance and getting it upwind through chop is an art form.

That's what gives it such depth.  There is *always* a way of doing it better, no matter how fast you're going.  A "point and shoot" boat without any shortcomings is dull by comparison.

Yes, it's a crappy design, but who cares?  If I wanted outright speed and comfort I'd stay in my car.


Edited by bustinben - 18 Jan 13 at 3:28pm
Back to Top
The Moo View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 809 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 13 at 3:59pm
I have recently done some racing in my old man's Laser which predates the XD spec by a long time. First time I have sailed one in anger for many years. Have to say it made a pleasant change to the agonising over the myriad adjustments required in the N12

Quite looking forward to the next sail and really not to fussed about its foibles.
Back to Top
Bootscooter View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 May 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 13 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by bustinben

Personally, I view its shortcomings as its strengths.  It's a total pig to get round the course at decent speed in the breeze, the rudder doesn't work very well, it's hard to tack and gybe with any elegance and getting it upwind through chop is an art form.

That's what gives it such depth.  There is *always* a way of doing it better, no matter how fast you're going.  A "point and shoot" boat without any shortcomings is dull by comparison.

Yes, it's a crappy design, but who cares?  If I wanted outright speed and comfort I'd stay in my car.
 
That's true of many other boats also - it's the foibles that give each Class (and individual boats in some cases - not lasers, obviously Wink) their character.
 
I'd still rather be sailing my OK though.
Back to Top
Wodman View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 03 Oct 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Wodman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 13 at 4:55pm
Surely most of the above argument ignores the most compelling reason that people own and race their Lasers - which is that they are so easy to live with compared to most other Classes. My boat gets ignored for six months at a time when work, family, training, Youth Squad, Rugby commitments get in the way. Then I get an opportunity to get to the club and the boat is still where I left it and still as competitive. I don't have to worry that the coveris filling with rain, or has been blown askew when we have a gale, don't worry about the varnish or the boat filling with rainwater. I have even bought another rig (for peanuts) to allow me to sail when its blowing harder than I'd like.

As I've mostly had development or "loose" one-design classes previously, I can sympathise with the gripes about controls and don't get me started about the nonsense concerning rigging. But I go racing when I can and guess what? I find a dozen other people of all ages trying to remember how to race, and we enjoy ourselves. The age/value/shiny-ness of the boat seems to have little bearing on results as the best sailors always seem to be first. For me and many of my club mates, without the sheer convenience of the Laser, we would be ex-sailors mumbling about "the good-old days" and how we will get back into it one day! 

In summary, the Laser is not a particularly good boat to own and/or race - but it's a whole lot better than none at all!
Richard.
Back to Top
RS400atC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Dec 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 13 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by ex laser

......

but, 1) all classes have to change or die. one designs change slowly, development classes change quickly. its how you manage the changes thats important.

.......


There seem to be a great many classes that do very well with very little change.
Many of the classes that are introduced for change's sake seem to be transient.
Some classes that change frequently like Cherubs and 14's restrict the real action to a few people who are prepared to buy a new boat and have it made obsolete in 5 years.

OTOH, technology moves on, it may now (or Soon) be possible to put a carbon rig in the Laser without increasing the cost of ownership significantly.

I think that is why the Morris Minor, 2CV etc were abolished, it became cheaper or more cost effective to build a 'better' car.
Back to Top
bustinben View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 15 Oct 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 13 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by Bootscooter

Originally posted by bustinben

Personally, I view its shortcomings as its strengths.  It's a total pig to get round the course at decent speed in the breeze, the rudder doesn't work very well, it's hard to tack and gybe with any elegance and getting it upwind through chop is an art form.

That's what gives it such depth.  There is *always* a way of doing it better, no matter how fast you're going.  A "point and shoot" boat without any shortcomings is dull by comparison.

Yes, it's a crappy design, but who cares?  If I wanted outright speed and comfort I'd stay in my car.
 
That's true of many other boats also - it's the foibles that give each Class (and individual boats in some cases - not lasers, obviously Wink) their character.
 
I'd still rather be sailing my OK though.

Well exactly, so why try and change it.  It is what it is and people love it.  There are some things that can be changed, because they don't change the character of the boat but at the same time do fix something that is fundamentally broken - carbon top section for example (although I would argue that the radial bottom section is a far more pressing issue).  Messing with the rudder, making hiking more comfortable or anything else of that nature is a step too far.  
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 14>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy