New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: RS400 proposed changes
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

RS400 proposed changes
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 29>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Iain C View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1113 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Iain C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS400 proposed changes
    Posted: 12 Oct 10 at 12:23pm

But why actually change the sailplan for the sake of it? The RS400 looks fine as it is, and if the supply of the current cloth is becoming an issue, then fine, change it, make it all transparent and black if they want, but keep the current sailplan. But to change the shape, and justify it by "it looks better" is ridiculous. If they said "we've reduced the foot length and added area up high to make it easier to gybe" or something, then fine, but "it looks better"?

Do they really think that having a small area of extra sail area at the top of the main will make a difference? "Why did you buy an RS400?" "Oh, well it was'nt because the missus does not like trapezing, but we wanted an asymm kite, and a boat that would go well in the light, shifty conditions at our reservoir, with fair racing with the other guys, it was actually that little square of rag at the top of the main that made us buy it"

If people want it to look skiffy, why not go the whole hog and go for an 18 style "gaff" top batten? That would look really good. And since when is a carbon boom "nicer to sail with"? What is that supposed to mean?

So what's next? Masthead kite on an 800?

Seems to be in one fell swoop RS have just blown their credibility and their main value proposition, fair racing for all and leave the chequebook at home, right out of the water.

(But then, the hulls never weighed the same anyway so perhaps it was just a matter of time…)
RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed"
Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs"
Enterprise GBR21970
Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra"
Back to Top
Steve411 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 09 Sep 08
Location: Cheddar, Somerset, England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 705 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 10 at 1:04pm

I can hardly complain about a new sail made from a modern laminate of thy same cut. I'd be in favout of that. Just not too sure of the new image - just a personal thing.
Steve B
RS300 411

RS300 page
Back to Top
maxibuddah View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 10 at 1:06pm
Carbon boom verus an ali one, never really noticed any difference when i swopped except it hurt less when it hit you on the bonce.

As for the material difference for the hull, well i know there was at least one vinylester phantom and it was no lighter or faster than its contemporary polyester brothers. The problem for the phantom was that none of the platic boats were ever down to a predetermined weight, 61kgs in our case. Only epoy ones got there. As there is little performance difference expected is the change being driven because its cheaper to use vinylester? I don't i don't enough about the materials to comment
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
Back to Top
AndrewLB View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 16 Aug 10
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 109 		Post Options Post Options   Quote AndrewLB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 10 at 1:39pm
Good grief! There's a hell of a lot of moaning on here about fairly small stuff that won't especially affect performance. Having seen the 'new' boat at the weekend my initial impression was that it was just a bit of a tidy up to keep the new family look (the black foredeck/badger stripe thing that you get on the 100/feva/vision/etc). It looked rather smart. Then I spotted the carbon pole (don't see any performance impact from that) and the carbon boom (will be much nicer to use).

The sail shape is a bit of an eye opener and I can't comment on the relative performance of it but I would trust RS to be doing the necessary testing to show that this won't 'break' the class. I spent Saturday racing side by side against James in his older boat with a prototype sail on & didn't notice much difference (though this may be down more to the fact that we were both lost in the farthest reaches of Chichester harbour - if you want to see mild pandemonium then take a square topped 400 through the middle of Chichester & Dell Quay SC's club race ).

As far as the hull material goes; assuming the final hull weight is the same as an 'old' boat's then where's the problem?
RS100 227 (10.2)
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 10 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by AndrewLB

Then I spotted the carbon pole (don't see any performance impact from that)

No? In many ways that could be the biggest of the lot... take a couple of kgs out of that big fat bow bashing into the Solent slop and it will make a fair old difference into who's the first to nose into clear air on the first beat. That's one change I can see no logic for at all unless the alloy poles have been breaking or bending.

Hull material... I don't see a big change, but if the amount the hull bends under rig tension changes it will certainly have an effect.
Back to Top
MikeBz View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 21 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 536 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MikeBz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 10 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by Skiffybob

I agree with Iain. This is hypocracy at the highest level.
 
The whole sales argument for SMODs, and the one you ALWAYS here on this forum and in sailing clubs, is the one that "all boats are identical, so it's just down to the crew", and that it's no "cheque-book sailing".
 
This blows both arguments clean out of the water.  You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 
Never in a million years have a I seen such a gross over-exaggeration.  If a class carries out some mostly-retrofittable upgrades every, say once every 10 years, it suddenly becomes chequebook sailing and blows the one-design concept out of the water?  The phrase 'get a grip' springs to mind.
 
Mike
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 10 at 4:42pm
Well you could argue that until everyone has made the upgrades there is a large element of cheque book sailing, especially as when all the boats are very nearly the same tiny differences seem to be magnified. But I suspect the comment is mostly its about what flak goes around comes around...
Back to Top
RS400atC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Dec 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 10 at 4:53pm
Some of my concerns are:
The mods are not freestanding but inter-relate.
For example if you break your carbon pole, will your ali one work with the new ejector system?
The boom looks shorter, so if you break an ali boom, do you have to buy a whole new rig?
Will old jibs work well with the new main?
Is the bend control necessary to get the most out of the new main?
Do we really want to be moving toward adjusting the rig more around the course?
Is that changing the character of the boat?
Back to Top
Paramedic View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 27 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 10 at 8:51pm
I assume the move to vinylester with no weight change is to increase hull life? In which case, how does it affect an old boat at all? Any reduction in 2nd hand value will be far less than that found in a dying class. 
 
If it increases substantially the stiffness of the hull it will split the fleet. The other issue is what other dinghies are built using it (I don't know of any) and therefore how many repairers will stock the resin to fix them?
 
It's also totally unnessary.The 400 is one of the best built polyester boats out there.
Back to Top
charlie1019 View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 28 Nov 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 173 		Post Options Post Options   Quote charlie1019 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 10 at 9:26pm
Originally posted by Steve411

Originally posted by turnturtle


 



 
Am I the only one who thinks that the existing 400 rig is excellent as it stands? To my mind it just looks 'right'. The proposed new sail plan and material make a proper racing craft look like a throwaway beach toy.
 
I'm on the outside of the class looking in, but potentially someone thinking of moving into the class next year. This move would put me off as if I were to buy second-hand I would have to add 1500 quid to the purchase price before going racing. Or would second-hand values fall initially to reflect the outdated nature of the kit I'd be buying...?


As another outsider, the sails above look sailing school like to me and would put me off joining the class - think it might be the jib that does it!??

To me, the current rig looks more appealing if I was to say which looked best.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 29>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy