New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Square tops
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Square tops
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 13>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
RS400atC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Dec 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Square tops
    Posted: 11 Jun 22 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by A2Z

Originally posted by Sussex Lad

 

Quick question that's been asked before: When does a one design become a development class?


When individuals are able to make changes to hull, rig, foils etc without needing a class vote.  You can’t put any mast you like on a Blaze, or any sail, or indeed any sailmaker.  You can’t put a different rudder on the back.  You can’t design your hull or pick your builder.  Name a class that has never updated anything?

You can do all of those things, it just means your 'Blaze' ceases to be a Blaze Class Dinghy.
Like you can put a Rooster 8'n'a bit rig on a Laser and race it as a PY boat. You can put foils on it if you want. The owners of the 'design rights' can't control what owners do with it. Class associations may be embedded with manufacturers, but there's nothing to stop a bunch of owners forming a new class association where people race hulls sold as Lasers, or RS600s with foils. You can buy a class yacht like an X-99, change the rig and race it under IRC. Some CA's are bound by the RYA or WS due to being adopted National or International Classes. When you buy a boat to race, if you want to go beyond club PY races, you need to buy into the class's 'ethos' and rules and MO, or pick a different class.
Back to Top
Sussex Lad View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 08 Jun 18
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 22 at 9:45pm
I really don't have an issue with changes per se.

It's just that with every change (and there have been many incremental changes) there is the same assertion that there is no performance improvement.

It's the boat that always stays one step ahead of the slow to adapt PY numbers.  Great marketing strategy.......I'd probably do the same. Wink LOL

Edited by Sussex Lad - 11 Jun 22 at 9:46pm
Back to Top
Grumpycat View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 29 Sep 20
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 22 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

I really don't have an issue with changes per se.

It's just that with every change (and there have been many incremental changes) there is the same assertion that there is no performance improvement.

It's the boat that always stays one step ahead of the slow to adapt PY numbers.  Great marketing strategy.......I'd probably do the same. Wink LOL

Err these days the py system is quick to react as they use real race time data. So if a class really gets faster is shows . As I mentioned Supernovas, they took 25 pounds out of the boat and loads of slow sailors joined the class so the py got a little better  Smile
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 22 at 7:58am
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

I really don't have an issue with changes per se.

It's just that with every change (and there have been many incremental changes) there is the same assertion that there is no performance improvement.

It's the boat that always stays one step ahead of the slow to adapt PY numbers.  Great marketing strategy.......I'd probably do the same. Wink LOL
Ah now, this I agree with!

Originally posted by Grumpycat

 Err these days the py system is quick to react as they use real race time data. So if a class really gets faster is shows .
It’s not that quick to react.  The numbers only get published once a year (and not at all during CV19, understandably). And I seem to recall that the last three years returns are used in the calculation so any change will take at least 3 years to filter through properly even if every boat makes the switch straight away. However, there STILL isn’t any published info on how the RYA derive the PY list as far as I can find, so I may be wrong about that.
Back to Top
423zero View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 08 Jan 15
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 22 at 9:02am
MK3 Enterprise is the same speed, but if its a blustery capsize day, going to have a massive advantage.
Robert
Back to Top
Riv View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 23 Nov 13
Location: South Devon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 353 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 22 at 10:44am
Just looked at the Mk3 Ent from Rondar.
It seems to be a self drainer. Am I correct?
If so yes massive advantage, just capsize pull it up and sail off, no worries!
Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.
Back to Top
423zero View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 08 Jan 15
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 22 at 11:45am
Yes, it's self draining, race winner, same PY.
Robert
Back to Top
RS400atC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Dec 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 22 at 4:49pm
I think most instances of an Ent capsizing will be discarded in working out PY corrections..
Back to Top
423zero View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 08 Jan 15
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 22 at 5:04pm
Yes, could have worded that better, would be more effective class racing.
Robert
Back to Top
The Moo View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 809 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 22 at 5:55pm
As the owner of a Mark 3 Rondar Enterprise, I would describe it as semi self draining. It has a lowish false floor with tubes through the transom but still has self bailers set in recesses.

Capsized once since buying the boat. It's certainly an improvement over our Rondar Mark 2, which had buoyancy bags that could have been a tad bigger, but it is far from the real deal imho as you are quite reliant on the bailers to finish drying the boat out.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 13>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy