Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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No race officer sailing |
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Do Different ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 27 Dec 20 at 7:56am |
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Six pages of making a really good case for first past the post Class racing over stop watch Handicap format.
Admittedly buying an App and GPS would maybe cost less than another boat but perhaps the old duffers who can't use sail wave but can count boats past a flag know something.
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polc1410 ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 10 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 147 |
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I have little doubt that they know that if they make it look like they tried but messed up, we won't rush to ask them to do it again... They were supposed to time the boats past.. not count them past... |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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And then you wonder why clubs find it difficult to get race officers. It's nothing to do with the format or the methods, its that they get whinged at for being out of date old suffers who are total sh*t at what they do.
I'd not come back to do more, either. Sounds to me that maybe a little more volunteer appreciation and a smidge of volunteer training would go a f**k of a lot further towards accurate results than any computer programme. Clubs are about people - all of them. Mind you'll need the computer once you've driven all the volunteers away. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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polc1410 ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 10 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 147 |
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They don't get whinged at!
They don't turn up - no-one reminded them. (40 years ago it was in a paper yearbook that they got 6 months before the duty, now they get emailed, they click a link to confirm they will attend, they get another email to remind them a few days before, but they still forget) They turn up not having read the notes for race officers They turn up and run what to sailors seem like 3 decent faces, only for the scorer to be left with a results sheet that is useless (who gets the blame - "the scorer hasn't published results from yesterday yet" They change how the races run to suit themselves. SIs say slow handicap is 3 minutes after fast, but no fast turned up so we started slow. That's not what the SIs say. But no-one whinges at them because they are grateful they showed up (if they showed up). Because ultimately they are 'volunteers' although the kind of volunteer who has been told they have to volunteer as it is a condition of membership. But the consequence of poor volunteers is the race is rubbish or the result never happens or is unfair because half the fleet knew they were to start on 6 minute not 9. Sailors become disillusioned and stop racing. Reducing the number of "volunteers". I don't do enough of other sports to know - but how many other sports have volunteers who have to give up the sport to volunteer for a week ? And those who are actually any good at it, end up being asked repeatedly to help, for no reward. As someone above said "no lunch" because you were doing results. Last home because you out the RIBs away. Whatever it may be... Yet if we suggest something that might reduce the burden it is our fault for either not training enough others to do the job (yeah - when we used to run training for Club RO - 6 people turned up who were the same 6 who came the year before who are all absolutely fine at it) or for wanting to introduce technology that will exclude the old duffers... Come on... Maybe none of us should sail with this new fangled technology like fibreglass and we should stop using kicking straps because Elvstrom has taken all the skill out of racing... Honestly convince me that in 20 years time we will still be recording race results on paper with a pencil and a stop watch? If not... I'd rather be on the team who develops the solution than sitting around I. 20 years time wondering where I was left behind. Volunteering is 1960's stuff. We need to move with the times. You get sailors are increasingly time poor but cash "rich". In 20 years some of the old duffers won't be around. Their you get replacements will be the new old duffers but who will have replaced them? The 20 and 30year olds will have taken up other sports instead. Perhaps they will still be sailing... But in different ways. Speed challenges? How fast can you make the boat go on your GPS ? We see this in windsurfing where racing windsurfers are a fairly small bunch. We might not think that's a big deal... But racing forces you to sail in all directions... Windsurfers seem to love reaching... |
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Sam.Spoons ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400 |
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I raced windsurfers for 25+ years and the windsurfing course racers (basically the same as dinghy racing) have said the same things to their reaching brethren to try to persuade them to try racing and they give exactly the same reasons as non racing dinghy sailors for not racing. FWIW reaching up and down in a good breeze is fun, it's what I do when I'm out for a blast* (rather than racing or, occasionally ![]() * what the board manufacturers describe as 'freeriding' and, unlike dinghies, there are boards specifically designed for it.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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423zero ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420 |
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At my club, OOD does everything, opens and closes the club, organises and runs the racing, course setting, starts the races, ends the races and does the race sheets, only safety done by someone else. Can't see how any of the systems mentioned can help at my club.
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Robert
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Grumpycat ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 29 Sep 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 497 |
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Totally agree , it’s very similar at my club. We run races with teams of three, one race officer and two in the safety boat. In fact it’s even easier as we sail pursuits most of the time and have a m/c that does the start times for us.
My club and I are not against new technology, that’s why we have a m/c for starting and use sail wave to work out handicap results on the couple times a year we have them. But like 423zero I fail to see how any of the systems mentioned can help my club run races easier or with less people .
Edited by Grumpycat - 27 Dec 20 at 3:48pm |
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polc1410 ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 10 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 147 |
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No reason OOD has to open (or rather no reason OOD can't do safety).
If the race is self starting, you only need the end positions for a pursuit race. Not 100% certain if any of the systems can do pursuits but I don't see why if you know every boat GPS position, you know start was 11:00am and race duration is 60mins then all you need is to be able to pull the positions at 12:00, work out who is first and work back... Sounds simple enough. Harder if lapping tales place but provided enough data is known... Pretty sure the software can do it. So that means you can save 1/3rd of the (volunteer) "staff"... And perhaps fairer... As how do you take positions for the whole fleet in a pursuit... A rib racing back through the fleet? A line people have to cross laid at the lead boat? If it takes 5 minutes to get there from the end of race duration then that two boat length lead I had over the faster PY boat is gone through no fault of my own... |
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polc1410 ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 10 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 147 |
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That was kinda my point... If you don't race in the current way you don't need to belong to a club. A club becomes a beach to launch from and possibly some safety provision. The art of sailing becomes diluted as people will stop sailing to windward and down wind which are hard and boring. They will reach about for fun and speed. "Proper" racing will become the thing other sailors and clubs do... And likely a huge ball ache process as people will want it done "properly" with laid marks and judge boats etc. |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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This year we have scrapped the traditional "duty" system as too many people have been unable to make it to the club. Racers and people who feel like it have stepped in, and racing has run fine. I'm sure there have been difficult to read names and a few dodgy timings, but everything seems fo have made it up onto sailwave. I'm sure it could have been done electronically, but I can't see how that changes the relationship between the race committee and the members.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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