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2019 RYA PYs

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    Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by fab100


Originally posted by Peaky

Ain’t that the truth. Arguably though, that’s the point. No class of boat in reality gets slower, yet PYs go up. That is counter intuitive. In fact they are going up either because a. they were wrongly assessed in the first place or b. Other boats have got faster but this is reflected in raising other boats PY rather than reducing the quicker boat’s PY.

Surely, not that simple. 
The PY system is not necessarily/solely about any class of boat getting quicker (or slower) per se, it's a compound of that (thru better set-ups and systems, specification changes, whatever) AND how well in aggregate those boats were sailed in handicap races where returns were filed AND how conditions and courses in those races suited those boats (another thread perhaps, are there 'windy' years and 'light-airs' years or does it truly average out?)
A bandit boat is often that because it has historically been sailed by the less experienced (in handicap races where returns were filed). Then the hot-shots pile in and, well, we all know the rest.

All true, I was simplifying. I was looking into the question of whether there were windy years (or even decades) the other day, to see whether that may have been a cause behind the trend in PY deflation in sub 1100 boats. Data is very generalised, but I did find this paper that shows that wind speeds have been dropping over the last 50 years or so on average, maybe by a couple of knots.
Here is one figure from it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 6:29pm
And these figures that show more recent years.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 6:30pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 7:08pm
Pretty sure JimC has mentioned windy/less windy years.

If many of the returns come from inland, maybe look at weed growth too. Must be worse for fast boats?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 7:11pm
Is there a graph for Sundays? Average speed down by a couple of knots?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 7:25pm
In club racing, well sailed slow boats will always be disadvantaged by having to duel with poorly sailed fast boats, but in small club fleets you can usually find clear air. I have been wondering if, in the Great lakes series with a large fleets and a lot of dirty air, this could be a factor in some more generous handicaps for slower boats compared to the PY handicap.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Sussex Lad, you are assuming that a "better" system will be less flawed. Given the biggest variable in the system is the nut on the tiller, I don't agree that cutting the base figures differently, or throwing technology onto the water, is making anything more accurate. It is simply making the inaccuracies more hi-tech.



I'm struggling with your reasoning. Having thought about your rather long sentence I can only assume that you assumed that I was assuming  Wink Yes, in this post I am assuming.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 10:15pm
I am pretty sure that having the system pinned to a Laser would not work.

Currently for each race the system calculates a correlation between the finish times for each of the boats in that race, and their handicap, this results in a better than PY or worse than PY for each boat. (excluding the very poor performers)

If you have a load of Lasers in that fleet then great you can have a correlation back to the Laser base number. However if you only have a small number of abnormally performing Lasers then that fleet to Laser correlation will be skewed, which messes up all the results.

If you have no Lasers in your fleet then you have to do the correlation between all the boats on the day the same as the current system.

I can't see how relating everything to one class would help anything, it would just add a layer of complexity and additional oppertunities for error.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 11:13pm
Blaze (very slow to tack) is not as suited as you lose more tacking on a shift than you would by ignoring it.

Did you ever get to one of the CA training weekends ?  No I did not think so .... You never quite got the hang of it Paul did you .... !!    LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 19 at 7:06am
Can anyone remember 'Firefly being the pin boat ? Did it work ? Why was fixed boat system abandoned ?
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