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Boats for sale
| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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| Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
4000 Facelift by Rooster |
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alstorer 
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Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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 Topic: 4000 Facelift by RoosterPosted: 23 Jan 14 at 8:56am |
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From what I'd heard a lot of the 4000s, like the Isos before them, have been sold to Italians?
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Al |
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RS400atC
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Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Posted: 23 Jan 14 at 10:06am |
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The Bus and the 2000 do not really belong in this conversation. They have 4 digit py's. Different market really. Still, they seem to deliver racing that people like, possibly being slower helps that. The world has moved on since the 4k was born, but if you want to be finishing ahead of one over the water, you're still mostly looking at pretty serious, possibly fragile, pure racing machines. |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 23 Jan 14 at 10:09am |
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That's because the market for fast boats has collapsed. It would not be especially hard to commission a boat superior to the 4 Tonner in every way, but, I think, rather harder to sell it in significant numbers. Edited by JimC - 23 Jan 14 at 10:10am |
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yellowwelly
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Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Posted: 23 Jan 14 at 10:27am |
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yep- we can't fault that observation.
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RS400atC
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Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Posted: 23 Jan 14 at 12:14pm |
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I think the 90's in the UK was a unique period for creating new classes. But looking at the fleet of D1's at Lymington, which seems to have become established, there are still people willing to step outside the circuit classes. Although speed isn't everything, and the enthusiasm for fast boats has been tempered by wanting good racing in the circuit classes, you only have to look at the youngsters in 29ers to know that fast boats have a future market. |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 23 Jan 14 at 12:24pm |
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I used to think that too, but when I look at the youngsters at my club who were sailing 29ers ten years ago, then with the very honourable exception of the one who's currently preparing for a certain regatta in Miami, they all appear to be sailing slower boats than the 29er: indeed I can only think of one other who regularly sails a trapeze boat. I'm at a loss to account for it, but there you are. Edited by JimC - 23 Jan 14 at 12:25pm |
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yellowwelly
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Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Posted: 23 Jan 14 at 12:43pm |
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just a suggestion, but maybe because anything much quicker than a 29er doesn't really suit inland sailing at smaller locations... not unless you have a penchant for certain classes and sailing styles therefore you are willing to accept certain compromises to sail what you want.
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Do Different
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Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
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Posted: 23 Jan 14 at 12:44pm |
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I generalise of course however. Yes, the 29er is fast and popular because it is ideal for it's age group and their mentality. Maybe driven by memories of the long hot summer of 76 and internet images of Aussie Skiffs some got caught up in bit of an arms race at the bigger / adult end of the scale. ISO, 4000, 5000, Boss, RS800 all very well if the majority of UK sailing was done on open waters, in temperatures of 25 c by Bronzed Fit 20 somethings. But it's not. Shifty Lakes big or small, a cold and grey North Sea and once a week if they're lucky 40 somethings don't make a perfect mix for these boats. One incident back then says a lot to me. A husband and wife (both quite light weights) couple had been sailing together for years very nicely in a 505 pre monster kite of course. He decides to flog it for a 4000, they have a massive matrimonial in the middle of the river. She never sails again, he limps on with random youngsters for a few years then gradually drifts away. |
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yellowwelly
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Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Posted: 23 Jan 14 at 12:48pm |
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The asymmetric bubble bursting...? No, it's been more like a slow deflation of a balloon, and this is all that's left of the 90's kite hype...
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Posted: 23 Jan 14 at 12:58pm |
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Hmm, we have 3 d-ones, which might be considered a concentration, but not really a fleet. Not a knock of the d-one, because I have considered one myself. I think the problem such as it is if a far bigger issue and that is the decline in club sailing.
Youngsters in 29ers are usually trying for the squad and doing the circuits, but I am not aware of any big 'fleets' of 29ers who race at a single club consistently. I guess some of the very big clubs such as Hayling or QM might manage some, but I doubt its widespread. So why is club sailing in decline?
Firstly in the modern world the draw on peoples time and the fact that children seem to be adults at a very young age. 25 years ago it might have been cool to be sailing an Enterprise with dad when 16, but today not a chance. Sadly doublehanders have declined, but the older generation, struggling for crew turn to single handers, hence the dramatic shift towards singlehander sailing in recent years. This doesn't bode well for sailing in the future. I also think that the whole 'squad' system and pushy parent scenario is damaging to sailing in the long term. Take the squad system - if you are young you start in an oppie and suddenly you are travelling everywhere most weekends. you continue through say Feva's and on to 29ers. Now for uk sailing podiums and the select few, its a brilliant system - however for uk sailing as a whole it just isn't. All the local club racing loses lots of young sailors to 'the circuit'. With few young sailors then sailing at the club each week, its not attractive for other local kids to sail as they want to be with kids of there own age around, but those kids are 'on the circuit'. Hence all clubs are really struggling to bring through more than a handful of younger members. The big clubs may be managing better than the average club. Another factor is 'pushy cheque book parents'. I wouldn't tar all with the same brush as there are many well meaning and supportive parents, but every time the big oppie events come to town some of the parental behaviour has to be seen to be believed. Crying small children being pushed into boats and shoved off in freezing conditions and strong winds for 5 hours at a time. I have even seen stand up rows between parents. As I said there are plenty of great people in that fleet, but sometimes you do wonder who some of the aggressive ones are doing it for - probably not the kids. Last weekend it was bitter with 18- 20 knots and whilst there were few boats out, there was a decent sized oppie fleet out. Undoubtedly there were a fleet within the fleet that wanted to be there, but we all commented that there were probably a good number who were just miserable. None of that helps swell the numbers of young people sailing. |
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