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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nemesis
    Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 8:58pm
Resin rich face sheets are a little more robust, but generally the extra is swimming about on the inside where it is winning you less.
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 8:57pm
With one hit infusion, no matter how leak free the bag and how good the pump, the bag goes slacker and there will be resin pooling, plus with wet lay vag bagging you can screed the core with a light filled epoxy mix, and deal with all core splices and junctions etc with such a mix, whereas with infusion these areas are filled with beat epoxy which is several times heavier.
Wet lay vag bag, if done well is very close to exotic.
Infusion starts to be come more competitive for much thicker laminates, and monolithic laminates where the extra resin stays the same but proportionally it is less compared to the useful bits.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 8:45pm
Thanks Mike, good advise! I'm doing if for the fun of it, so will try to remember to keep a smile on my face!

Dan, why would wet lay up be lighter? Not that min weight is the aim - more robust and lighter than a Laser is the objective.
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by Peaky

That's what I said - but in words of one syllable!   
Material selection is really important to me. I am hoping to use a polypropylene reinforced glass. It appears to combine the impact resistance of a rotomold with the strength/stiffness/weight of a normal layup. It doesn't absorb water and is recyclable. The downside is that the prepreg material needs heating to 200C to melt the polypropylene, so expensive tooling is needed. And that means a decent number of units is needed to reimburse the upfront costs. In other words, it is a risk. Otherwise a more conventional use of infused foam sandwich with a robust lay up would be used. But I am determined to use the most appropriate material rather than the 'best' exotic.


If you want to infuse, be ready to throw a few parts away.
If you are infusing in one shot (i.e. inner skin core outer skin in one go) you will not get down to 45kg
If you infuse a skin, sand and prep, then bond core, then infuse another skin, you will take more time than wet lay vac bagging, and be heavier.
My tuppence worth!
Still - might be worth making a slightly heavier boat in glass to reflect the weight increase that will occur as a result of going to a rotomould material.
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 7:59pm
Good luck Toby ! 

If you take it further there are are a few points to remember.

1) You will not keep all of the people here happy all of the time - ever ! (and some will never be happy anyway)
2) It will take longer and cost more to get right ... but the alternative is to rush it and you can see plenty of examples around.  Nuff said ?
3) Do pinch all the best ideas you can from wherever ...  forums, other classes, other industries.
4) The ones who might 'knock' your concept .. are usually not going to get one anyway.  And will probably not ever build anything original themselves.
5) When you think it is 95% finished you still have half the work to do !  
6) You learn more in the first hour sailing your creation than in the months or years planning it.
7) Minor 'mistakes' are always termed 'development' or 'prototype' as well.
8) Fast is good but does not necessarily sell ... 'nice' can sell though at any speed. 
9) Enjoy the process ...
10) Most experience is useful ... and afterwards if we learn we don't have to repeat every one !   

Cheers - Mike L.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 7:57pm
That's what I said - but in words of one syllable!   
Material selection is really important to me. I am hoping to use a polypropylene reinforced glass. It appears to combine the impact resistance of a rotomold with the strength/stiffness/weight of a normal layup. It doesn't absorb water and is recyclable. The downside is that the prepreg material needs heating to 200C to melt the polypropylene, so expensive tooling is needed. And that means a decent number of units is needed to reimburse the upfront costs. In other words, it is a risk. Otherwise a more conventional use of infused foam sandwich with a robust lay up would be used. But I am determined to use the most appropriate material rather than the 'best' exotic.
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by Peaky

Originally posted by hobbiteater

no no no no no no
YOUR design needs all of this list 
# thwart
# centreboard
# assy kite
# trappeze
# aft sheeting
# no thwart
# off boom
# daggerboard
# hiking
# symmetric kite
Wink

Indeed, the perils of design by committee. I'm happy to listen, but reserve the right to ignore it all!


No no no peaky! You put it out there, then harvest ideas thus saving thousands in sitting bored execs around a table brainstorming, then whether you chose a sleeve or zip or track sail you have engaged in an egalitarian and interactive design process with your customer base, having listened to their needs every time a design decision is needed to be made! Duh!
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MerlinMags View Drop Down
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Posts: 588 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MerlinMags Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 6:04pm
Goretex bung hole? Moisture can get out, but not in?
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cad99uk View Drop Down
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Posts: 187 		Post Options Post Options   Quote cad99uk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 5:56pm
What will the hull be made from?
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The Moo View Drop Down
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Posts: 809 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 13 at 5:53pm
Don't make it a one trick pony. Most of us need a boat that performs reasonably well in all weather and sea conditions.
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